[Bath_VIP]

I also agree with what Waitrose’s boss said. So called loyalty cards do not make me loyal, they are merely a way for me to maximise the value for money of my travel. Personally I would love to see BA & others have the courage to offer a straight cash back scheme which stores up credits which can be redeemed in part or in whole on any future booking. EOS was the only airline I am aware of that offered such a scheme. I know BA was panned earlier this year for the perceived lack of value in its new part redemption scheme where 4.5k avios gave you £30 off but it is a step in the right direction as far as I am concerned and I wonder if BA is thinking of going further down this route.

For myself, I have been fortunate that long haul availability for MFU to Houston has been very good this year and have not had any issues with finding flights so avios are delivering value for me at the moment.

[MartynSinclair]

@Bath_VIP – what would you prefer £60 off for 4,500 avios OR a free European sector for 4,500 avios(+£19 or so…) ??

Rewarding by giving free flights, will always be better value than straight cash back..

[Bath_VIP]

… provided the “free” flight is available Martyn! Clearly then I will take the free flight but if it isn’t available then the points are worthless in which case I will use the cash off version.

This is the basic issue with loyalty cards in general. Availability vs redemption value. I am aware of the generally good availability for short haul but I don’t do much shorthaul on BA these days.

[MarcusUK]

I booked Etihad return to Australia Pearly Business class with a great fare of £2,750 each with two travelling, leaving in a few weeks.
The miles will give us a free flight and silver FFP membership by return. We also got free night 5 star hotel stopovers for the first night each way, then half price each night added, and Limousine transfers to and from.
Also each side in London and Sydney, over £1,000 worth of extra value in the Biz fare.
A mix of hotels.com owing me free nights, and my Platinum Club Accor, with some use of KLM Flying Blue miles on Air China business Class, gives us returns to New Zealand, and 2 weeks there also.

Using the quidco site to access these Companies, also earned me a further , £450 back!
So, mixing the few cards rather than scattering the many are very useful. It will all be for leisure, so i agree with the above, but in mixing a few chosen programs. Goodbye winter for a 6 week trip!

[MartynSinclair]

Just booked to Florida for next week. £1,200 in club (give or take a few Euros)

26,000 avios = 5 economy sectors or 2 club sectors in Europe, which can be “stretched” if I increase money to reduce Avios needed per sector..

Really does make the entire ticket very cost effective…..

Can’t see a monetary discount using avios being worthwhile….

oh – 400 tier points thrown in – (only another 15,200 needed for lifetime gold)….

[Andrew66]

I’ve worked out our tesco clubcard points when converted in AVIOS earns us about 25k which we have spent on an upgrade to CW on flights to St Lucia the cost difference is from £600 to £1000 approximate so around 12 to 20 quid per week ., I’d rather save up points for a treat like this rather than given a free cup of coffee or newspaper , a CW return is more appealing than drinking coffee in the salubrious setting of a supermarket .
We have no reason to be loyal to tesco , it’s 500 yds down the road and very convenient , my wife knows where everything is to do her shopping quickly , getting points is a bonus , not a deciding factor .

I stick with BA for flights as I feel my loyalty is rewarded , I’m aware it’s not the best in the world but neither is it the worst , it’s convenient and rewarding for all my travel plans , I hope the unmissable sale is not too good as I’ve spent my stack of AVIOS , but I’m happy with my purchases !

I found your “off topic ” link interesting Big Dog , as my first full time job was working for Waitrose at store opening time the shop floor had to be pristine and with our cornucopia displays of fresh food a group of young men in perfect white overalls and starched aprons and slightly tilted white trilby hats looking like virginal Al Capones would be greeted by our boss who was immaculate especially in his grey suit which complimented his golden tan and silver hair , he uncannily looked like Blake Carrington .
Then the doors opened and the yummy mummy’s fresh from the school run paraded in , our supermarket was known as ” The Club ” loyally they returned every day because he used to greet them and chat to them , it got me thinking if only he had offered them a free coffee he could have made it to CEO !!!

Good personal service creates loyalty , not points and freebies

[FormerlyDoS]

Andrew66

Whilst I don’t blame you for collecting points and enjoying them, your post illustrates one of the big problems with the BA Avios scheme, at least for people like me.

I earn my Avios from typically last minute, expensive business class bookings, often one way – e.g. last year £2,500 AUH-LHR and £2,600 GOT-LHR-JED. My Avios are worth no more than Avios earned in Tesco and do not get me priority over Avios earned in Tescos (or other stores/credit cards.)

I’m not flexible with dates, as my business events are when they are and therefore so are my holidays. And I don’t have the need for RFS flights in Europe.

As a result, Avios with BA are a disaster for me.

People complain about the loco airlines nickling and diming them on anciliary fees, yet I believe that BA creates an anciliary revenue stream by selling a lot of Avios to stores and credit cards, which results in reduced availability for those who earned their Avios the hard way.

Example. I need to go to Dubai in a week and looked to see if there are any WTP to CW upgrades available; none over a period of some weeks, so I’ve booked a cash fare elsewhere.

But, as I say, I don’t blame you for this and I’m pleased it works for you.

At the end of the day, I believe this approach will inevitably reduce the service levels, as people upgrading or burning Avios will find the offer pretty good value.

[MartynSinclair]

FDoS +1

Irrespective of how you benefit from avios (i.e. shorthaul/longhaul), avios fundamentally is a programme to reward the customers of BA/Iberia, that has some become diluted through Tesco’s etc….

I think there should be recognition and preferential availability for BA earned avios………. unless of course BA /IAG has become the owners of Tesco’s!!!

[TominScotland]

With Miles and More due to be sold off by Lufthansa, surely this situation will only get worse. Is it reasonable to speculate that a similar fate awaits Avios?

[FormerlyDoS]

Avios is already a separate company.

http://www.avios.com/country-selection#gb

BA just happens to offer, administrate and redeem Avios, as part of the BAEC.

[SwissExPat]

HIlton Hhonors points are of great value to me, especially since they introduced the Cash plus points for a flexible room booking.

I have saved very substantial sums by making these bookings against the flexible rate.

Example… I am taking an early flight next February and will need to travel 2 hours by car to the airport. If the weather is ok [no frost] then I will drive on the morning, hence non need for the room.

As a backup, I booked a room at the hilton airport which cost 8,000 points plus Euro 30 against a euro 127 flexible rate. If it is forecasted to be frosty then I will use the room, otherwise I have up to 4pm on the day before to cancel.

Example of these points being very useful.

[FormerlyDoS]

I do a similar thing with hotels.com, burning reward points, which are a type of cashback.

The advantages with this scheme are no blackout dates, you just redeem them against the room cost and no commitment to one chain, you can use them for most hotels (some are excluded, per se, so not the same as blackout dates.).

Do HHonors have blackouts, or is it similar?

[Bath_VIP]

FDOS,

You and I have agreed in the past about the benefits of the Hotels.com scheme which is a very clear & simple scheme, the likes of which I would love to see among airlines but seems unlikely at the moment.

A number of people have mentioned QuidCo. Does this operate in a similar way? How does this work?

[tangey1]

Quidco and topcashback provide cashback for your normal online shopping. They have many tier1 vendors, think apple, Amazon,Tesco, BA etc. Topcashback guarantees their cashback is better than any other, and they have many ways for the user to claim their cashback. So if you are buying something from Amazon, you log into your topcashback account, and then click thru to Amazon from there.

Cashback will track within a few hrs to a day, but it may be 10-12 weeks before it becomes payable. Each retailer has their own cashback % and T&C. There are various payout options such as BACS, Paypal etc.

Interestingly, there is also a Tesco clubcard payout option. So if you have £10 of cashback, you can ask for it to be transferred to your Tesco clubcard account, which of course then allows it to be converted to Avios.

A couple of days ago, I looked thru the Topcashback website, and picked up 4 offers, that for a total outlay of £10, will generate over £47 of cashback, which if put to Tesco and then Avios, works out at over 11K of Avios for £10 outlay, or less than 0.1p per Avios.

You can see the vendors I chose here:

http://www.goingonrewards.com/p/getting-12000-avios-for-free-each-each.html

[Andrew66]

Hi FDoS and Martyn, , the point I was making that I earn a total of 25k AVIOS from tesco and would rather save up points than receive an instant reward or benefit like a cup of coffee , because by saving points I feel I get a better reward so in that respect I don’t totally agree with Mark Prices view but then he is defending his own companies loyalty scheme which is run a bit differently to other supermarkets .

Most of the avios I receive come from flying with BA though , to me it still feels strange that I spend 50k to upgrade to CW and then get back 38k after the flight , I also book full fare prices to enable earning enough tier points and AVIOS to cover my total travel plans , so I am loyal to BA and feel I get the most I can out of the scheme , but if another airline offered the same or similar that suited my plans I wouldn’t just stay blindly loyal to BA .

I agree though if I was in your shoes I would feel the same , as you would like last minute rewards or instant rewards but the BA scheme seems designed to offer the most to people like me who book from 355 days in advance and have firm travel plans , I can plan how to spend my points while you have to try to burn them .

If tesco clubcard stopped the AVIOS scheme it wouldn’t really make that much difference to me , I earn most of my AVIOS through BA products just like you , I think the tesco thing is a little overplayed , I also think that points schemes will become less generous so higher points earners or more regular travellers will benefit more .

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