My wife and I are status members of BA Executive club and LH Star alliance since many years. Having been on a number of LH first class flights out of Frankfurt, early this year we had our first first class flight out of Heathrow 5 with BA and were astonished by the differences of the pre flight organization between BA and LH:
Arriving with car:
Heathrow: Looking for a space in any car park of the terminal and schlep the luggage some hundred meters to the first class check in.
Frankfurt: Drive in to the first class check in, porters will bring your luggage to the check in and are valet parking your car.
Check in and entering the lounge:
Heathrow: Going about 100 yards to the boarding pass control and queuing at the fast track for security check, than going some meters to the Concord lounge
Frankfurt: Directly at the check in you pass the passport-control and the security check without any queuing and you are inside the lounge already.
In the lounge:
Heathrow: The Concord restaurant is divided in small bunks with two meters high walls and only two or three seats each. All in dark brown without table linen. Not ideal for claustrophobic people. Menu is the same as in gold lounge: Very poor choice of mains: Hamburger, Sandwich, Noodles- traditional English dishes, nothing international. No self service for additional food. Very limited selections of European and overseas newspapers and international magazines.
Frankfurt: Large elegant restaurant with white linnen. The menu is offering a wide range of international food in a star class quality (Different meats and seafood , also varying European gastronomic specialties and so on) beside a very large self service buffet with German and international specialties of hot and cold food and pastries. Large selection of European and overseas newspapers and magazines and German and English travel magazines.
The way to the plane:
Heathrow: Nobody is telling you face to face when you should board your plane. You just proceed on your own accord the shorter or longer distance to your departure gate.
Frankfurt: A hostess is collecting you and takes you to a Mercedes or Porsche car for direct approach to the plane.
By the way: Can anyone tell me the privilege of BA Concorde room in comparison to the gold lounge, except the shorter distance from security check?
Binman62 - 10/02/2012 14:12 GMT
The Concorde room is limited to First Class Ticket Holders...though upgrades increasingly get access.....This is due to e tickets and inability of staff to read tickets.
In T4 days the ticket was checked and upgrades did not get in they went down stairs.
The First lounge accepts anyone with F tickets and Gold card holders plus guests and those with emerald status on one world. You are right that the food is the same but the Concorde room feels a little more exclusive.
Like you I dislike the table and high walls.
The issues you highlight are real for BA who really need to up their game in the pointy end.
The problem is they have no real competition on the transatlantic routes and consequently what they offer; whilst poor in relation to LH, EK, QR, SQ etc; is light years ahead of anything ex LHR.
ScottWilson - 10/02/2012 15:22 GMT
Indeed, LH on the ground at FRA beats BA at T5, but in the air I'd argue LH in First, except the A380 product, is dated certainly compared with New First.
However, Binman is right. BA bears all others Trans-Atlantic in 1st as it only has AA and UA to compete with, and is vastly superior to both, even if the hard product on UA has had a spruce up - the soft product and certainly the terminal experience is akin to a good business on an Asian carrier.
Serious competition in First today comes from ET, QR, EK (although product varies wildly per route), SQ, CX, KE, NH and JL.
Germantraveller: I regard Luthansa FIRST CLASS terminal the real top First Class travel experience in the world.
I do not fly with any of the Gulf airlines between Europe to HKG and therefore not able to comment these rising stars no mater how good they are. No desire to bump down and change plane in the middle of my sleep!
Binman62 - 10/02/2012 16:31 GMT
I am now in the First Lounge at T5 enjoying a drink and waiting for some food. The service is friendly but hardly stylish or slick. The soup was not what i ordered but rather than ask me it was simply delived and without the warm bread promised.
The food choice is also poor but entirely satisfactory for me tonight. If I did this week in, week out, the burger,curry and salad choice would become very dull. This is no Qantas first class lounge.
What I notice here compared to the Concorde room is the noise, the sound of trolleys washing up and general kitchen chatter is really annoying where I am seated
BeckyBoop - 10/02/2012 16:42 GMT
You must be more than satisfied with BA or you would be flying on other airlines, but you dont. xx
NTarrant - 10/02/2012 16:47 GMT
Well said Becky.
The First Lounge in T5 is large enough for somewhere quiet to be found.
If you are sitting by the food or drink, its bound to be busy. Go to the far end or towards the computer area.
Unfortunately for you, other passengers are allowed in!!
Have a great flight Binman and perhaps enjoy one or two more bevvies and then you may not hear too much noise!!!
Bucksnet - 10/02/2012 16:59 GMT
"Very poor choice of mains: Hamburger, Sandwich, Noodles- traditional English dishes, nothing international"
germantraveller, I don't think noodles are an English invention and Hamburgers were invented in er.. Hamburg!
Martyn is right as there are lots of different areas to sit in and I found some areas rather too quiet for my liking!!!
Bucksnet: I have yet to find any Asia noodles in T5 First lounge and BTW Hamburgers were invented in the USA!!!!
Bucksnet - 10/02/2012 17:13 GMT
FC,
"the term hamburger originally derives from Hamburg, Germany's second largest city, from where many people emigrated to the United States" - according to Wikipedia.
Agree that the US is the country most associated with the Hamburger, but they're not from England are they
Bucksnet: I had a German lover once from Hamburg and knows the city very well.
Wikipedia might have been right as to the term through early German immigrants to the USA (same thing with Chop Suey) but in modern day food fare it is synonymous with the not so desirable US food eating habit.
The Brits have fully adopted the Indian curry in their diet and long replaced the Sunday Roast!
Let's not distract the other poster with our different views!
Bucksnet - 10/02/2012 17:52 GMT
FC, The point was that the Concorde Room did have international food - neither hamburgers or noodles are English.
I like a curry, but it has not replaced the Sunday roast.
IMO the LH F ground experience in FRA is unmatched. It is so smooth and stress free it's amazing. The F terminal is well designed and thought through and the little things like security as you arrive, the choice of food, drinks and the seating areas are so well thought through. Being collected personally and escorted downstairs where the border police already have your documents and your driver is waiting just add to the experience along with being introduced to the cabin crew on boarding just make the experience like no other.
The new F cabin is also great, I've been lucky enough to try the 744 a couple of times and the A380 three times, I believe the same seat is on the A330 and A340 and it's an absolute leader.
For me there is no comparison with BA at any stage of the process, LH win hands down.
Binman62 - 10/02/2012 22:40 GMT
@10/02/2012 16:42 GMT and others,
I made the point in my first post on this thread that BA was the probably the best thing on offer ex LHR. It should be no surprise therefore that I would choose to fly BA, particularly as I hold a gold card and was using air miles so the flight was free.
Being a fan does not stop anyone offering constructive feedback, the point about the noise was that in comparison to the Concorde room it was noticeable and intrusive. Of course i moved and it was very nice but it was noisey! The original poster asked what differentiated the two and I commented that noise was one are where the Concorde room differs.
Being a First lounge I think it is reasonable to expect an enhanced level of service, it is also reasonable to differentiate the service between lounges.
I feel that BA have long rested on their laurels both in first and club world. Steps have been taken to improve food in club world and club Europe catering has changed significantly.
The commitment to First remains questionable. 14 seats against some who now have just 6 or 9. A hugely variable product, awful IFE and inconsistent service.
The original poster highlighted the chasm that exists between LH and BA. Sadly for passengers and fortunately for BA,it is not yet possible to fly LHR long haul non stop from LHR.
For the fares being charged, especially if paying yourself, the product is not what is should be.
The shorthail domestic flight was late, but the crew cheerful and coffee hot. 2 otard helped
Whole new thread.......isn't me or have seats got smaller..........!
Binman62: I totally agreed with your 22:40 GMT post.
Since BA has started improving the catering on Club World, I hope my next HKG-LHR BA flights in March would be a surprise.
I still think it is wrong for any airlines (petty really) to make premium passengers to select the main course and worse still not getting their choice. Most Asian airlines would carry ample food choices and the cabin crew consume the unchosen dishes.
FC
You are right that it is petty to make premium pax choose their food, unless it is beforehand and then everyone gets their choice.
But my experiences of dealing with BA over the years have taught me that it is not a very customer oriented company (apart from the 'People First' years following privatisation) and seems to take pleasure in being petty, e.g. the removal of 'anytime access' from Gold card holders.
Dis: BA better wake up to the fact that they don't OWN their customers! Just see how many of their British (loyal) customers in this forum are migrating to other quality air carriers with either keen pricing or simply better services.
Agree that the F lounge in FRA is far superior to BA's, if you can find it and provided the arrival staff know how to direct you correctly, which has not been the case on my last two transits.
Couple that with immigration officers who shout at you, security that is akin to a certain branch of the German army you can no longer mention, truly massive distances that have to be walked - even if travelling F - and you can keep FRA and give me LHR anyday!
rferguson - 11/02/2012 16:45 GMT
I really thought that BA would have massively improved the ground services for FIRST passengers upon the move to T5. It offered a blank canvas. Perhaps an exclusive entrace with porter/valet service. A discreet 'sit down' check in area. And seperate transport to the aircraft when they are parked off-stand. And an escort to the aircraft when they are on a jetty.
I find it hugely embarassing that when we are parked at a remote stand the FIRST passengers are packed like sardines in a bus with everyone else. That should not be the case. Seperate transport should be provided for FIRST (AND perhaps CLUB).
But at the end of the day, FIRST is the cabin that generates the lowest profit onboard the aircraft. Which when I found this out at a BA internal presentation I was suprised by. I thought it would have been Economy.
The reality however is that only around 20% of passengers in FIRST are paying those crazy fares you see on ba.com when you select 'FIRST' from the drop down menu. The overwhelming majority are on miles upgrades, free mileage flights or passengers that have a corporate account with BA and pay much under the published F class fares.
Its mainly for these reasons that BA retains a FIRST cabin. 1) for the prestige. 2) rewards for mileage pax. and most important 3) It gives BA more leverage in negotiating corporate contracts as many companies stipulate their CEO's and top execs travel FIRST.
