Who were the fully-flat pioneers?
Back to Forum- This topic has 12 replies, 6 voices, and was last updated 7 Jul 2015
at 16:25 by KarlMarx.
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MartinJParticipant“Wow, how far we’ve come in the last decade!”,I was thinking as I was stretching out on a flight from Windhoek to Frankfurt last week. Nowadays even obscure outfits like Air Namibia or Czech Airlines have all-flat seats.
Do you remember when fully-flat seats appeared in business class cabins? As I only started business (class) travel in 2004 I have no personal recollection of the time when the now-dated BA seat was the leader of the pack. So who set the trend? As I remember BA, Virgin Atlantic, Air Canada, South African, Singapore Airlines and Cathay Pacific were first to introduce fully-flat in business in all of their fleet (or in the majority of aircraft). Am I right? What are your personal recollections?2 Jul 2015
at 19:56
AMcWhirterParticipantBA was first to launch fully flat seating early in year 2000, closely followed by VS.
At the time, I believe fully flat Club World was announced in 1999, there was a famous pic of the then CEO Bob Ayling, lying in one of the new seats at a media event in London.
BA rolled out Club World on a route-by-route basis. It took six years before all the long-haul fleet received the fully flat Club World seats.
The ASA told BA to be accurate in its Club World advertising. So small print at the bottom of the ad told readers on which route(s) the flat bed seating was available.
Virgin’s original fully flat bed seating was a flop. It was totally redesigned after only a short period in service to be replaced by the current product.
If I remember correctly, the motors which raised or lowered the VS seat were prone to failure. They couldn’t cope with the weight of some passengers, especially on the transatlantic.
The other carriers you mentioned were years behind BA/VS. At the time they all maintained there was “no demand” or “no need” to provide fully flat seating.
2 Jul 2015
at 20:49
MartynSinclairParticipantHow ironic that BA were the pioneers of the flat bed in 2000… yet 15 years later they lag so far behind in terms of keeping the product fresh!
5 Jul 2015
at 13:54
KarlMarxParticipantTo add to the thread, BA was also the first to market per se and sold seats that converted into flat beds in the mid ’90s, in first class, giving the airline the know how to develop business class flat beds before their rivals.
At the time, BA was one of the best airlines in the world for product and service.
5 Jul 2015
at 13:59
AMcWhirterParticipantHello MartinJ –
BA launched fully flat beds at the beginning of year 2000. Virgin Atlantic followed just a few months later.
But Virgin’s original fully flat beds adopted a conventional layout. Today’s herringbone layout followed a few years later.
5 Jul 2015
at 15:17
Charles-PParticipantThe first fully flat seats were offered by Pan Am on their Boeing 307 Stratoliner in 1940. This was very short lived as all the aircraft were transferred to the USAAF for war work but resumed in 1946 where they used the ‘Clipper’ name.
During this period Star Trek creator Gene Roddenberry was a Clipper pilot; he was aboard the Clipper Eclipse when it crashed in Syria on June 19, 1947
6 Jul 2015
at 07:42
dutchyankeeParticipantHi Charles-P, I think you will find that flat beds actually were introduced prior to those of PA. American Airlines had worked with Douglas to create the DST (Douglas Sleeper Transport) which became known as the DC-3 and had 21 Day seats which converted to 14 fully flat berths for night flights. Pan Am was of course the pioneer of so much in commercial aviation it pains me to give this ‘first’ to AA, but they did this first, and if I am not mistaken AA actually had a sleeper service on another plane prior to the DST being built for them but can’t remember the name of the plane. The DST came into play in the mid to late 30’s.
7 Jul 2015
at 08:41
Charles-PParticipant‘dutchyankee’ I stand corrected 🙂
Looking deeper into the subject there may well have been some flat bed services out of the UK as well on the Imperial Airways Empire Route services to India using the Short Empire Flying Boats however these may have been more of a seat plus bed deal rather than a seat that becomes fully flat.
7 Jul 2015
at 10:05
dutchyankeeParticipantCharles, I think you are right re: the flying boats, and from what I have seen in historic photos, most seats did in some way form part of the lower berths, so would still count! I certainly feel I missed out on a great time to travel. It all looked so much more glamorous and exclusive!
7 Jul 2015
at 10:09
Charles-PParticipantPhoto here
http://www.exilegames.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=147
Incidentally Shorts were the very first company in the world to make commercial aircraft and continue to exist today as part of the Bombardier Group. They are a major player in the economy of Belfast.
7 Jul 2015
at 10:12 -
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