DarrenJ - 08/12/2009 11:12 GMT
Where has BA’s service gone?
On a recent flight from Dubai to London, it was noticeable the cabin crew are not happy. From boarding to disembarking, the morale was poor, the crew were rude and the service received was comparable to Ryan Air.
I was in the galley stretching my legs when I spoke to one of the crew. He told me that the attitude of staff is now “I don’t care” and that most of them have now lost the pride factor of working for our national airline. It is simply nothing more than a job and to provide a good service is an added extra so why bother. Furthermore, the feeling amongst staff is that they will be either sacked or forced to leave, so again, the feeling is “why bother”….
It was so disappointing to hear such negative feedback and to see that the crew, who are usually all smiley, polite and eager to do a good job, look tired, upset and disinterested. I have a feeling if things continue then those who do book with BA for the service side of things will try other airlines.
Customer experiences such as yours are clearly unacceptable - on any carrier, at any price. I'd be sure to email your experiences to BA, including full details of your booking, as they need to know.
Having said that, BA will have flown to and from nearly 150 other destinations that same day, with tens of thousands of passengers and thousands of cabin crew. To suggest that one (still unacceptable) experience is defacto a reflection of the company as a whole has to be questioned.
I've only flown Ryanair personally once, and I actually found the crew to be very friendly and personable. I couldn't comment on their training and I didn't like the brash cabin interior and the constant selling - but you pays your money and you takes your choice. From the service point-of-view, I'd no more suggest that Ryanair's service must be uniformly excellent on the basis of my single experience, than I would that Air New Zealand's must be dire because I once had a rotten flight.
Some here will say that others' experiences posted about BA back up your impression, but unfortunately there are so many folks with a specific axe to grind, and flag carriers are uniformly criticised by their domestic market media, that I'm afraid that argument doesn't really hold water. You'll find Australians berating Qantas just as much as Britons laud them. It's human nature, apparently.
In passing, for anyone who's interested to know some of what BA are communicating to their crews then this is it:
"Separating the facts about cabin crew changes from some of the fiction you may have heard.
FICTION: We are introducing new contracts for existing cabin crew.
FACT: You keep your current pay and conditions.
FICTION: The company wants to cut your pay.
FACT: Your basic would be frozen for two years but 75% of cabin crew will get at 2-7% increment this year and next. Unite has proposed a pay cut.
FICTION: The company is forcing cabin crew to leave.
FACT: The cost savings are delivered through voluntary options for cabin crew.
FICTION: New Fleet is set in stone and you will be forced to join it in the future.
FACT: We've been talking for nine months and we've agreed to look at alternatives to New Fleet.
FICTION: You will lose pay and allowances on New Fleet. The monthly payment is a done deal.
FACT: We've offered a new monthly travel payment to protect your current average variable pay. It's only an offer.
FICTION: Unite's proposal offers £173m [of savings].
FACT: Our plan offers £127m of cost savings. Unite's proposal offers £54m.
FICTION: A yes vote is a bargaining tool to improve the deal.
FACT: A yes vote is a vote for a strike."
NB: I take no view here on any part of the above, nor its communication to BA employees.
I would point out that BD's recent announcement of 600 compulsory redundancies doesn't appear to be getting a lot of airtime on here though!
Cashsuds - 08/12/2009 12:29 GMT
This is a reflection of the current times and is rather universal, particularly in "developed" countries. Basically, it all boils down to whether you actually like the job you're in. It shows when you do like your job, and in turn, I just would not believe that employers such as BA will not notice one's enthusiasm. That's where us FF should bother and write in if we find these "rare gems" on board who "enjoy" their work. Unfortunately, what comes naturally is all too hard, "just a job" attitude, because one tries too hard, takes too much effort and it shows!!
However, to be fair, BA is also currently going through a real hard time. It's gotten really big, with the idea that, being really big, one can have critical mass to "bully" their way to the top and of course, if one was on the top of this massive structure, one can justify their salaries. Not so, the service industry which is what BA is in, works best in smaller discrete units. It needs to have a heart because they are working for people and need to be treating their most important resource like people - the coal face people, viz the flight attendents.
It;s time, BA shareholders see this and bring on more capable people on the top, rather than stick to the familiar and be "fed" with the cr***. Only then will we be proud again of our airline.
MarcusUK - 08/12/2009 13:04 GMT
Any organisation, any Business, must inspire their workforce & motivate their teams.
I fly with many International Airlines on many routes world wide as a customer in all classes each year. Yes, they are all having tough times.
However, their is no loss of morale, staff are not neglected, or imposed upon as the British Airways staff. There is not one Airline where the senior Management, would be in such conflict with their staff as BA!
Walsh & his team need to be kicked out, BA being well down the slippery slope already. It has treated its customers the same as its crews, clearly, you all comment as such on here.
The fundamental problem with BA is its senior management team. They have the wrong approach, the wrong arrogant attitudes, lack communications skills, teamwork, & see spin on elements such as the "Amaazing LCY- NYC" route (Yawn Yawn), as distraction from their mistakes.
More to follow with strikes, Worldwide this will be reported, & really their is so much avoidance of BA booking now, it will be one of the last fatal blows for BA.
Walsh & his team should be sacked, if you want BA to survive. They show not even the basic level of skills & leadership neccessary, for any organisational, or leadership role.
Other Airlines are in the same situation, & have no such conflicts with their teams or loyalty from customers!
Until you fix that
I'm afraid that it is quite disingenuous to suggest that other airlines do not have the same (or similar) IR issues that currently face BA.
Reasonably informed observers of the industry would be able to name at least the four network carriers that I can think of off the top of my head that have potentially even more fraught issues to deal with.
Pithy theories will not assist any of them in facing contemporary global commercial, political and economic realities.
Airpocket - 08/12/2009 19:05 GMT
Mark, one can't wish for Walsh and his cohorts to just vanish. This would cause a huge, fatal vacuum. Who would replace Walsh? Are we even sure there is anyone remotely competent to replace Walsh and co?
MarcusUK - 08/12/2009 23:50 GMT
Many have been asking for Walsh's head for a long time. He appears a hypocrit in the airline industry, & certainly few other Airlines would offer him a job, having made such a mess at BA. He has personally avoided taking responsibility for every major failure of BA Service, in the last years, previous crew strikes, catering strikes, cuts, charges, luggage losses & delays.
Frankly, there are some excellent troubleshooter Senior Managers of Airlines out there, & enormous amounts of candidates to take on his role. Frankly, anyone with the common sense he lacks, & good teamwork & communication skills would be ideal. He simply does not have the business accumin to run an airline, only destroy it!
You could employ a supermarket Manager to run BA, as they would be more in touch & have the appropriate skills & communication skills to lead a team & not alienate them to start with. He is the jey to whether BA will survive, its his attitude & presence that is causing such conflict with the staff & alienating his customers.
If you dont then BA will not survive if the damage he causes continues,
Other Airlines are working with & not imposing in these difficult time. None have the constant bad PR of BA which is about to get worse when the strikes hit.
Senator - 09/12/2009 05:15 GMT
Mark,
SK may dwarf BA in size, but not a single day goes by without some SK bashing in the Scandinavian press.
DarrenJ - 09/12/2009 09:19 GMT
It might be worth pointing out that Willie Walsh will no longer be the BA CEO when the airline merges with Iberia. In fact, the current CFO, Keith Williams will take the reins of the airlines and Willie Walsh will be the joint-CEO of the holdings company...
VintageKrug - 09/12/2009 09:44 GMT
Once again, MR9 relentlessly bashes his anti-Walsh drum, while the share price continues its rising trend.
The fact that a good friend of MR9’s was made redundant several months ago by BA seems to inspire this continued vilification. So it’s entirely personally motivated.
Despite MR9’s professed knowledge of the airline (despite being a Clinical Director at the Department of Health, and warning of massive numbers of DEATHS from swine flu this year) he has clearly stated he never flies British Airways.
If he doesn't fly the airline, how would he know?
British Airways, like many firms, is going through an unprecedented period of uncertainty right now. And no-one could rightly say everything is rosy. However, to castigate his management is unwarranted, entirely driven by personal issues, and doesn’t align with the many successes seen during his tenure:
- Economic shocks including SARS, Iraq War, Oil Rises, APD Tax Increases, Food Strikes, Terrorist Threats, 777 crash and Credit Crunch weathered
- New routes to Vegas, Maldives, Sharm and Punta Cana launched in 2010
- New fleet of shorthaul airbuses and embraers, longhaul 777s and A318s delivered or being delivered
- Fully funded strategic fleet replacement in the form of A380s and 787s on order
- Innovative Club World London City all business class service launched
- Rollout of www.newclubworld.com complete
- New First cabin on the way
- Completely new Flagship LHR Terminal 5, and new lounges in Terminal 3
- Galleries concept being rolled out globally
- Merger with Iberia almost concluded
- Potential merger with American Airlines on the cards
- Longstanding structural Union issues soon to be addressed
The City agrees, seeing value in BA and an opportunity for future profitability, with Black Rock increasing its stake in the airline above 13% last week.
fasttracker - 09/12/2009 15:53 GMT
not to mention taking away food and charging to book seats
VintageKrug - 09/12/2009 16:05 GMT
Both of which were designed to raise revenue as the cost base is simply too high.
Reduce the cost base by implementing the changes set out by management and the need for these essential cutbacks will reduce.
There is already a rumour of food coming back in some form or other in European routes sometime next year.
Airpocket - 09/12/2009 19:11 GMT
Good to see Vintage Krug is alive,well, and regurgitating once again. ;o)
MR9 is entitled to say what he wants, as are you VK. If you don't like it, go back to the BA lounge. :o)
MarcusUK - 09/12/2009 20:41 GMT
But BA is being bashed in the press worldwide...Not just their own home country. Lets see what happens when the crews go on strike, & BA suspend their services, for yet another reason, again.
As for the Yo-Yo Management at BA...No food - food coming back, Exec Club level restrictions -now reversed...in every aspect of their business, that stands alone really.
Instant Gratification / (cash seeking) child like short term reactive management , & Parental dealings with customers...
No wonder we see the comments on here from previously loyal customers, & no one wants to book ahead with BA anymore.
In Australia BA has become "Bloody Awful"...
I read with interest Continentals Club's fact & fiction ( are you Willie Walsh's brother?- only kidding). For the sake of argument I'll read that as an accurate account of what is on the table.It does however raise an onging and growing problem for most large companies, and small ones for that matter, and that is the ability to articulate and communicate key mesages clearly that are believable and credible without any hint of spinning. If Continental Club is right then why is BA having such a torrid time getting it's points across or is Unite better at it. Finally we should keep in view this "just a job" attitude hasn't suddenly developed overnight. It has been growing year by year for many years. A classic example of the 'boiled frog syndrome' and for those of you not familiar with that just Google it. The buck for that stops at the door of Willie Walsh, past CEO's and Unites General Secretaries over time.
Ardmarnoch - 10/12/2009 08:07 GMT
I note the flight was ex Dubai back to London. On return legs,any crew of any carrier are often tired. Frequently this is not a rostering issue but one of the crews having a "good time" at the destination. Perhaps Dubai is a fun place to party and shop - still........
SUBSEQUENT POSTS DELETED.
GENTLEMEN
THIS HAS GOT TO STOP.
In the last two weeks I have been contacted by both email and phone by users concerned about the direction this forum is heading, and have had to warn several users, and ban others because of persistent personal abuse of posters on this forum.
Strong opinions are fine, but insulting other posters is not.
We will not tolerate it and it should not be tolerated.
The forum is here for everyone to enjoy/ learn from / be amused by.
Sexual, personal, racist and homophobic comments, whether dressed up with knowing winks or not are not acceptable.
If you have something to say about the topic, then post.
If all you have to say is about the other poster, then don't.
Tom Otley
Editor
An12Lover - 10/12/2009 18:04 GMT
On December 4th flying BA 0228 BWI > LHR I had the opposite experience. Flying stowage in 30A at back of aircraft on m y airmiles the entire crew from cockpit to rear economy galley did a great job and re-affirmed that all BA flight/cabin crews can be a briliant customer service machine, as well as human beings.
Flight had problems boarding due to TSA having 2 people to scan all pax to international pier..delayed about 5/6 pax but a smile from a/c door about being 1 minute before boad time, assistance with an oversized overweight [guilty] crammed laptop bag..pax moved around as there were a few spare seats. Push back basically on time. A/c took off into turbulence and Lady captain told all had to delay in-flight for extra 30 minutes..bad turbulence got through that then normal service crammed into 30 mins less time for crew.. normal overnight flight..I had to get a bottle of water a few times but plasant crew at ungodly hour in rear galley..flight crew up for morning call usual delay into LHR and T5, ended up with a c 10 mins delay and landed ok, taxi to remote T5 stand but held 5 metres short as auto park system failed c0-pilot warns pax to stay seated and then we nudged the final few metres to park, as I'm at rear I was off last onto 3rd schedule bus which was delayed rain falling on steps so crew says back into plane rest in seats, young mum with 2 under 4's made a big fuss of by several cabin crew and looked after, I got a 90 seconds ground upgrade to Busines class to put my bags and chat to business cabin steward about B767 ages and how good the fleet was wearing and how comfortable they felt even at rear economy..then away we all go..mum being helped down stairs to bus..
Entire crew worked well as a team. I don't know about you but standing up for hours at a time while trying to be polite and serve loads of people at ungodly hours is tough enough for me let alone to do it in style..
Just because they are under pressure workwise that crew did a great job and the fact that maybe a good 50%+ of pax were not British might mean a gain for UK 'export' revenues and a + for BA in general.
I really don't think you can generalise but if you can off the basis of my flight [ air miles one! ] they are doing a great job.
Hello Everyone,
Tom, well said and thank you very much for taking such a tough line on those who frankly have been spoiling what is generally an excellent forum from which I have gained and hope occassionally given very useful information.
Hopefully your warning above will be enough to finally get through to people that we do not want those who abuse the forum to be a part of it any longer.
On a very positive note, I am just back from Tel Aviv having flown BA for the first time in a very long time and I have to say that overall it was a very positive experience. 767's both ways in Y class. VOD entertainment and food and service on both flights absolutely fine with great crews both ways. T5 was also a pleasure as I passed through security at 8.30pm on a Friday evening and there was no queue at all.
No status with BA so no lounge access but had a very nice meal at Wagamama as it was a short night flight (4 hrs 20 mins) and I wanted to snooze as much as I could.
In short then after this experience, i will certainly consider seriously flying BA again. I must admit, this is not the feedback post that I thought I would be writing about BA and I am pleasantly surprised and happy about that.
Safe travels,
Jonathan
NTarrant - 10/12/2009 19:23 GMT
From the other end, I travelled LHR-DXB on Friday and returned yesterday in First and the service was top noch. The crew in both directions were attentive and polite and friendly. On the return journey. a day flight, the steward cam around as we neared LHR and had a nice word with all the passengers asking if we enjoyed the flight etc etc.
And well done Tom for removing the slagging match, it was getting very annoying.
Good to hear you enjoyed BA Jonathan
Both flights were completely full in all classes and overheard one passenger saying that he had difficulty in getting flights.
