rcellio - 22/08/2010 19:20 GMT
It's that time of year again when FF's start counting the status points they need to remain at the status level of their choice.
I've been a United 1K since 1997.
I needed to go to Auckland from San Francisco. Since United doesn't do this, I went out of my way to fly United to Sydney and then take an Air New Zealand flight to Auckland. Since United did not offer this route to me on their website, I had to buy two tickets. One SFO-SYD on United, another SYD-AKL on Air New Zealand.
Why did I buy an Air New Zealand ticket and not a more conveniently timed ticket on Qantas? Because Air New Zealand is part of the Star Alliance and I needed those 3000 Elite Qualifying Miles to remain a 1K for 2011.
On the Air New Zealand website, when you buy a ticket, it doesn't tell you what fare class your ticket is in. Before you buy the ticket, the web site does tell you if you will earn FF points and Status Qualification Points. In my case, I would not earn FF points but the website said that I would earn Status Qualification Points. Great. Since Air New Zealand is part of the Star Alliance, I took Status Qualification Points to mean that I would earn United's Elite Qualifying Miles for 1K status. I didn't need the FF points as much as the Elite Qualifying Miles, the earning of which I thought was an automatic part of being in the Star Alliance.
Wrong assumption.
I appealed to United. United showed me on their website fares that do not earn Elite Qualifying Miles. The possibility of not earning Elite Qualifying Miles on a Star Alliance flight was news to me. Even if I had known this, it would not have helped. If you book on Air New Zealand's website they don't tell you the fare class you have booked until after you have bought your ticket. Plus, I think it's a bit much for an "Alliance" to have such arcane rules buried deep in their websites that contradict the whole point of having an "Alliance" to begin with.
No matter. United's final say on this matter came from Diana Johnson, Service Director for Mileage Plus. Her message was "By contractual agreement with all of our partner airlines, we can make no exceptions to their policies regarding invalid classes of service. I apologize the Air New Zealand web site does not give you the class of service prior to purchasing the tickets."
Of course, this makes no sense since Air New Zealand is not the airline determining if United gives me Elite Qualifying Miles. United has made this determination. It doesn't cost Air New Zealand anything for Elite Qualifying Miles. If it was FF miles, Air New Zealand would have to pay United, so I would understand. This is a lame excuse on United's part.
Oh, and let's not talk about how United couldn't give me a boarding pass for the Air New Zealand flight in San Francisco when I started my trip or how I had to recheck in Sydney, not only for a boarding pass but to make sure they loaded my luggage on the plane going to Auckland.
Or when I departed from Auckland, they said I had to get my luggage in Sydney and recheck it to San Francisco. Well, they said this until I protested that I didn't have an Australian Visa because I thought the interlining of luggage between airlines, especially between alliance airlines, was automatic. Air New Zealand told me that because I had two tickets (no choice on my part because I wanted to remain on United as much as possible and United wouldn't ticket me SFO-SYD-AKL) Air New Zealand no longer checked baggage through as a cost saving measure. It seems that baggage would come back to Air New Zealand if there was a delay and then they were responsible for it. Of course, without asking, the Air New Zealand agent did give me a boarding pass on my United flight to San Francisco. Something United couldn't do from San Francisco to Auckland.
Is this the way United should treat a 13 year 1K that goes out of his way to fly First Class on their airline? Is this the way an "alliance" should work?
I think not.
I thought I should let other fellow FF's know for their future reference.
Sincerely,
Ron Elliott
Three hours after posting this, I got this from United.
Hello Mr. Elliott
Thank you for your reply.
I am happy to guarantee your status in the event that the miles prevent you from reaching 1K for 2011. I will check your account in January and if your 2010 was short by 2,708 miles or less for 1K status I will manually continue your status and benefits.
It is my pleasure assisting you,
Melissa Forbes
Isn't that great!
JackyLek - 22/08/2010 20:02 GMT
I find Star Alliance work very well when you follow the rules of each airlines has . And if you had a tikcet that includes all sectors this shouldnt be a problem. But then I found that Asian and European airlines in Star Alliance is far more easy to deal with.
Hi Ron,
Quite a disturbing post, and thanks for bringing this to our attention. I'm SK EuroBonus Gold within Star Alliance and they have no discrimination with their premium fares, apart from the 25% bonus (miles and tier points) if you use their flights rather than a partner. Having said that, as Lufty and Swiss are my carriers of choice these days, I forego the 25% bonus (but get better service off the others which more than makes up).
Your post has prompted me to make a related point re OneWorld and Finnair. I'm AY Silver and from earlier this year they now apply a lower level of tier points with partner airlines, irrespective of booking class. I recently flew BA to HEL and go 2,000 or so trier points as opposed to the 3,500 I'd have got flying AY. The irony was that it was actually AY metal but booked through BA as a lot cheaper.
I guess that this is the equivalent of reverse-engineering the SK 25% loyalty bonus for flying your member airline rather than a partner. However, these anomalies seem to be increasing......
Off next week for a mix of travel on Swiss and Croatia Airlines, in a mix of classes, domestic and international (after the BT Posters' Committee Meeting tonight, of course). It should be interesting to see what points finally get onto my Star Alliance account.
Oh yes, a final point. TK are absolutely awful at posting points to your Star Alliance account (as well as just being generally "awful"). Even when flying TK in full-fare Business from BHX to places like Baku I have had real problems getting the points credited; being told things like "invalid fare class" (on full fare Business). It also usually happens, like you Ron, just before my qualifying period is up....
Good luck!
Regards, Simon
starflyer - 23/08/2010 07:50 GMT
Couple of lessons to be learned here:
- It is the metal carrier that determines miles in the respective FF programme, so it is indeed NZ that determines which fare buckets earn what with UA. I have yet to come across any fare bucket earning no FF miles that would earn status miles. If one is zero the other one is too.
- ALWAYS check fare buckets when booking, if the the website does not show them clearly check fare conditions they usually show up there or use another website.
- Interlining is only guaranteed if on one PNR with a large number of carriers, Star Alliance or not. If they interline on two PNRs it is a courtesy bonus but can't be expected.
Senator - 23/08/2010 07:55 GMT
Hello all,
As a Star Alliance Gold with Miles & More, United Mileage Plus or SK Eurobonus since 1999 I have never failed to get creditted miles, or felt like a valued customer with priority check-in, bags, lounge or security.
Having moved everything to Miles & More in 2000, there have certainly been major development that effect all programmes and members. The real issue today is that unless you fly in premium cabins, earning miles becomes an issue as the earn ratios on partner airlines' cheaper fares are very low. For example, M&M award me a paltry 125 miles on a low-econ from ARN to LHR on SK, whilst I get much more more on a low-econ fare on LH to Germany.
It is the first I have heard of regarding Air New Zealand and different rules for them.
One comment to Mr. Elliott to consider, anytime you issue two tickets under two different booking numbers you may encounter issues like this. For example, bmi will not transfer bags at LHR if you are on two tickets EDI-LHR on bmi and LHR-ORD on UA. It is "impossible" for UA to issue a boarding pass from SYD to AKL on a PNR they don't control. I tend to use multiple tickets as it is cheaper in many cases. When I do, I always call a travel professional so I can have it on the same booking to ensure bags are tagged all the way through, and so boarding passes can be issued. As long as you are on two PNRs and on two tickets you do take risks and it is "your own responsibility" if a flight is delayed in AKL. I have been able to get staff to manually check through bags on two PNR with two tickets, but it is not a "right" regardless of status and cabin flown. Just a friendly tip from a very happy Star Alliance Gold member.
ScottWilson - 23/08/2010 10:34 GMT
Rather intrigued why you didn't fly SFO-AKL on Air NZ direct, which has a UA codeshare flight number on it, it would have been many hours shorter, save the transfer hassle etc. Anyway, I'll assume that it was about price or that flying UA gives you certain elite FF benefits that *A codeshares don't. I assume UA wouldn't sell you the ticket you wanted because of that codeshare.
I had a bit of this flying SAS, as I am a NZ FF, and found that I had booked into booking classes that don't redeem any points at all (although they may do for SK FFs. I know NZ "status qualification points" are relatively new and for NZ FFs only. The reason they exist at all was because NZ was getting criticism from business travellers who would fly frequently on very cheap tickets and their loyalty wasn't being recognised. I am not surprised it offers nothing to those from other airline FF schemes. After all, UA doesn't grant Economy Plus to *A Golds, and SQ severely restricts upgrades to other *A FFs.
Having booked two separate flights it is not unusual to find you get treated as such. Interlining baggage can be a bit of a mix, and it is really up to the airline you first check in with to grant this, especially if ticketed separately. The reason being that responsibility for the baggage lies with the first airline, and if they are separately ticketed on separate airlines, some are very wary of taking on this responsibility.
On boarding passes, I have found usually you wont get a boarding pass for another flight if it is on a different day with a different airline. Flying SFO-SYD-AKL involves the second flight departing on a date TWO days after the SFO-SYD flight, the same does not apply in reverse.
I too have only had good service and immediate recognition of my status as a Gold Card (Senator) holder, though in fairness I have never flown with the American airline partners.
Once I flew Funchal-LIS-ZRH-LUG with TAP, TAP, Swiss, on three tickets due to my staying a few days in each city on the way out, but coming home directly - and this was the cheapest way to book.
After a quick phone call and discussion with her manager, my bags were accepted and checked straight through to Lugano. I think the call was more to do with "how to do it" rather than can he do it"?
One gripe though. Flying LUG-ZRH-LIS, booked through Swiss's website, with Swiss (LX) flight codes throughout, to find the ZRH-LIS bit was a codeshare flown by TAP. I do get the status miles, but not the 25% extra Executive Bonus miles. If the airline code-shares then I think the bonus miles should be given. I now take special care to ensure that flights where possible are with Swiss and not a code-share.
Senator - 23/08/2010 10:52 GMT
LuganoPirate,
The whole codeshare setup is a mystery, I agree. Bonus miles and HON miles are not available for flights operated by other carriers. Big issue for me exARN on Swiss and German destinations as the metal can be LX, LH, or SK.
Or, Senator, sometimes when flying SK out of BHX (especially in the aftermath of the Q400 problems) Atlantic Airways or even Air Moldova metal on one occasion.
Here's one for you. In a few days time I'm flying BHX-ZRH-ZAG with the family, in LX Business Class. The latter leg is operated by Crotia Airlines (OU). Then, on two separate economy tickets ZAG-SJJ and then DBV-ZAG, both with OU. A few days later, we then fly the two return Business Class legs to BHX on LX paper.
The baggage allowance on the economy OU flights is only 15kg per person. Given that I am flying OU into and out of Croatia in Business Class (with a 30kg limit), albeit on an LX codeshare, and am SK Gold, do I have a case for arguing for a larger baggage allowance on the Sarajevo and Dubrovnik flights with OU?
Any advice?
Off soon to the Forum 'Committee' meeting.......
Regards, Simon
Senator - 23/08/2010 12:17 GMT
Simon,
I believe the EBG status should give you 30kg regardless of class of service.
Too bad I am not in London tonight, have a pint for me as well.
Lastly, enjoy DBV and Hilton as it comes on the horizon.
If you are part of "Miles and More" within Star Alliance, you do get the bonus miles for all "Miles and More" integrated partners, which Senator, includes LH, LX, Austrian, Brussels and quite a few more.
This list includes Croatian Airlines Simon, so you will have no problem with your extra baggage since the first carrier is Swiss. On the second part you should be ok as Croatian grants similar benefits to all partner airlines.
This link from the "Miles and More" tells you which are the airlines giving the 25% bonus. May be helpful for info / clarification.
http://www.miles-and-more.com/online/portal/mam/ch/earn/flight?l=en&cid=18003
rcellio - 23/08/2010 15:14 GMT
I didn't fly on Air New Zealand because United gives me 1.5 EQM's per mile flown on the fare I was on. Air New Zealand would give me just one EQM (And I still think it's United who decides on EQM's, not Air New Zealand. Air New Zealand decides on the FF miles) so I wanted to fly on United as much as possible.
hutch312 - 21/12/2010 02:40 GMT
I flew Air New Zealand HK to London early November and the points never showed up. I filled in the request for miles with United Milage Plus website. About 2 weeks later I received a letter in the mail that denied the request for miles. This issue is what prompted me to search online to see if anyone else has faced this issue. Is it possible to get miles on Air New Zealand at all?
Perhaps in the future I will try Air China, but I am a little afraid of a long haul flight on that airline.
ffidrac - 21/12/2010 09:01 GMT
It depends upon what fare you've paid. ANZ flight from LHR to AKL last week was credited to my UA Mileage plus account within 48 hrs. I make sure my milege plus account is on my PNR before I fly. Likewise am sure my AKL to SYD flight today will be credited in similar time frame
PS It's only 28c here in SYD tonight
Given the subject matter here, we thought posters might be interested in a piece we published yesterday about the future of alliances, with quotes from Star's CEO Jaan Albrecht and other member carriers:
http://www.businesstraveller.com/news/special-report-whats-the-future-for-airline-all
PatJordan - 21/12/2010 10:36 GMT
Two months ago, my wife and I flew Newark to Orlando with Continental in their domestic first cabin.
Our Continental OnePass Gold (Star Alliance) cards would not allow access to the Continental Lounge, but my BMI Diamond Club Gold (Star Alliance) did!
Even the supervisor in the lounge agreed that the rules were a little confusing.
That said, I fine Star Alliance very good overall.
amllucy - 11/04/2011 21:10 GMT
I just flew to Auckland from Toronto via Vancouver and returned the same way. I was shocked to learn that I was in L class on air nz and would not receive any points from them even though they are star alliance. This is wrong on NZ part to my way of thinking. I wish I could contact someone who could help to make changes to this silly rule.
ScottWilson - 12/04/2011 10:31 GMT
I've flown SK and got no NZ Airpoints for it because the fare is low. It's swings and roundabouts, but then people who pay low economy class airfares wonder why they should expect to get much when they buy what is, at best, a marginally priced ticket (a fare that covers the marginal cost of their trip, with little contribution to the fixed cost). As NZ in long haul economy easily outdoes half the Star Alliance on service and seat pitch, I don't know quite why people expect extra value on cheap tickets.
Of course neither UA nor US grant lounge access for *Gold cardholders on domestic US itineraries, so frankly given that treatment, it is clear that equivalent benefits do not apply across the board.
Everyone ought to know that the best privileges always get granted by an airline to it own status holders.
While it's inevitable airlines will favour their own status cardholders, there should nonetheless be a common set of standards and facilities for all status holders across the alliance - that is after all the purpose of an alliance and something Star advertises.
At Zurich there is a Senator lounge for all LH / LX Gold (senator) cardholders which I think will include Austrian and TAP. For all other *A Gold Card holders there is the Swiss Business lounge. I find this fair.
What I do not find fair or correct is UA or US not granting access in the States for domestic flights when those same privileges are available to their card holders in Europe.
hutch312 - 12/04/2011 13:16 GMT
I have been a UA 1k *A gold flyer for 10 years now and I can say UA is by far the worse International Airline that I have flown. Unfortunately they got Chicago market cornered for direct flights overseas and the other *A airlines are quite good. Perhaps I need to move to a city with better airline service like LA or SF. It is really too bad that UA cannot improve.
