Discussion - Business Traveller

VintageKrug - 19/02/2011 08:01 GMT

This rendering looks rather nice:

http://a8.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/181682_188839317816435_117380074962360_508230_604333_n.jpg

Though I am not certain the idea of having a permanent bed is the best use of space; it looks rather like a surgical table!

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robsmith100 - 19/02/2011 09:33 GMT

Here's a virtual tour. I must say it does look quite nice.

http://a380.lufthansa.com/VIRTUALTOUR/#/DE/EN/EXPERIENCE/FIRSTCLASS

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DClinPsy - 19/02/2011 11:05 GMT

I know that Mr Walsh said that there will not be any changes to their A380, but BA gotta step up their game here. New concept and products for both First and Business class perhaps?

VK's link is the latest one?

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Binman62 - 19/02/2011 22:09 GMT

Very utilitarian and very Germanic in Both First and Business. Don't think BA have anything to worry about with the business class slide but like DClinPsy they really have to up the game in First.

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LuganoPirate - 20/02/2011 16:54 GMT

I agree, very teutonic and the seats don't seem that wide, but perhaps that's just the rendering.

I guess the reason for the permanent bed is because it's below the dignity of the Lufthansa FA's to make up a bed for their 1st Class passengers!!!

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Senator - 20/02/2011 17:05 GMT

Binman62,

Despite my LH inspired name in this forum, and a long standing loyalty to LH I consider myself fairly "neutral" in the choice of carriers.

I would agree 100% that the BA CW product is way ahead of the current LH product, including check in, lounges, hard product and soft product. LH long haul business is rather dull, I agree.

However, I believe of European carriers, Lufthansa delivers the best E2E First experience. Looking at the FCT in Frankfurt, the use of car services, the F&B offer, and the new seats and combine it all I think Mr WW should be worried. Even the old hard product is very comfortable.

I have not tried the new LH seats myself. However, they look similar to the LX product which was excellent.

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MartynSinclair - 20/02/2011 17:16 GMT

I know this thread is about the new LH First offering, but the above link does showcase the business class offering. I thought LH were updating to flat beds in business - the 380 offering still appears to be angled? Anyone know more.

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Senator - 20/02/2011 17:22 GMT

MartynSinclair,

LH is currently using the angled seat, also on the A380. There was an annoucement late last year of an upcoming change I believe. I think I read it here on BT Online, but I may be wrong.

The angled seat is fine, but not great. I find it better than AF/KLM.

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Binman62 - 20/02/2011 17:56 GMT

Senator, I think my post may have been miss read or perhaps just badly written.
I was tryig to say BA has to up its game in First.

It is clear they are being left behind by the likes of LH and the new AF product.

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Senator - 20/02/2011 18:34 GMT

Binman62, it was probably "User error 101" on my side.

Did you enjoy the AF First product? I was really unhappy when i tried it a few years back.

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FlyingChinaman - 20/02/2011 21:18 GMT

Senetor

I agree with you that Luthansa offers a very good F by EUROPEAN standard and I shall look forward to their new F seating.

Franfurt First terminal gets the heart of this "Last Emporor of China" every time especially with a private Immigration clearance and Duty-free reclaim service, on top of the personal car transfer etc.

Teutonic or not a tleast they make a bigger fuss of you then the other European air carriers and it is all good/

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antipodes - 23/02/2011 06:19 GMT

Just want to ask if Lufthansa have confirmed their concept that they will provide a permanent bed because they are still showing the virtual tour on their web site which shows a convertible bed If it is going to be a permanent bed then I support VK's remarks.

Concerning the A380's business class seats I understand that they will remain until Lufthansa commences its business class refit which will include a flat bed/seat sometime later this year.

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GoonerLondon - 23/02/2011 11:04 GMT

I dont think the difference is such that 'BA really has to up its game" in First - in the round, they are all very similar - some plusses, some minuses.

If you are going point to point from FRA, then the 1st class terminal comes into its own and provides genuine differentiation for LH. This is not the case when transferring. as a 1st pax, you are just as much exposed to the workings of FRA as an economy pax.

The LX experience is just as 'heath robinson' on the ground as T5 - the 'limo' is just a bit of wallpaper over the cracks. The lounge is too far away from the gates, and the double security thing is tiresome. And you have to leave the lounge far too early to take advantage of the Limo, leaving you wondering around the gate area waiting to board for 30 ins like everyone else.

T5 can work very well - if the fast track is 'Fast' and you are leaving from an A gate, then the on ground experience is excellent. I realise that if fast track is 'slow' and you are on a bus, then its a shambles.

In the air, be careful what you wish for. Taking 1/2 the cabin capacity out as LH have done can only lead to one thing - reduced availability for op-up upgrades, promotional one-way upgrades, mileage and reduced fare apex bookings.

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pinstripes&airmiles - 23/02/2011 11:58 GMT

I think the rendering in the link posted by VK is supposed to represent a new F product on the upper deck of the 747-400. Where as the link posted by robsmith100 is the current F product on the upper deck of the A380.

I was under the impression that LH were re-locating the F cabin to the nose of the 747 (see comments made a few weeks ago in the article regarding the launch of the 747-8I), but may be that only applies to the 747-8I and perhaps there's a retrofit planned for the 747-400 fleet? Anyone have any info on this?

Either way LH's existing F seat on the 747 lacks behind major European competitors as seats are deployed 2-2 on the upper deck, so if its busy and you are travelling on your own, you have no choice other than to sit next to a stranger - not something we all enjoy.

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Senator - 23/02/2011 12:37 GMT

GoonerLondon,

My sample size is fairly low on all carriers in First so I may not have everything clear in details yet. However, my experience with LH/LX (total of five flights) I have never waited for anything.

Most of my First trips have ended up in the US with LH/LX. In each case, I've been invited to join some First and HON pax for quicker Immigration processing. The same occurred in HKG. My record is SFO where I was in hire car 15min after doors opened. At JFK T4 last Easter, I was through Immigration and Customs in 10min from the door opened.

So it is not just about the outbound experience, but also the arrival experience. Here by the way, the BA Arrival offer is brilliant compared to LX/LH.

pinstripes&airmiles, the information I have from my sources at LH is similar to yours. First will be moved to the nose of the B747s, eight seats. I suspect pending how long LH is planning to keep the B747-400s, they will retro-fit these.