London airports

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  • Anonymous
    Guest

    Bullfrog
    Participant

    With the naming of ‘London Southend’, there are now 6 London airports. City, Heathrow, Gatwick, Luton, Stansted & the new London Southend, as it is being called.
    In terms of efficiency, I would also propose Southampton and Birmingham. I know these airports are an 80 minute train ride, but the small taxiways, smaller aircraft and small airports make for a fast and often crowd free experience.
    I arrived Birmingham yesterday from SW France. Having landed at 12.15, experienced a short queue at passports, I managed to catch the 12.40 to Euston which arrived a little late at 14.15. The FlyBe flight was inexpensive, and arriving in London by 2pm was fantastic. So I would like to propose that Birmingham and Southampton can be added to the list of ‘London Airports’.


    LuganoPirate
    Participant

    Put like that Bullfrog, it’s not a bad idea. I suppose it also depends on where you live. A few weeks ago I went by train to Warwick from Paddington. The train then carries on to Birmingam and I remember seeing on the timetable it was only another 25 minutes or so. Adding on the tube / walk from London Bridge hotel was an extra 20 minutes.

    Coming in from LHR, I needed 40 minutes from plane to tube and over an hour from tube to hotel, so Birmingham could well be a consideration in the future, though not if I find a reasonable flight to City.


    Bath_VIP
    Participant

    Bullfrog,

    I made a similar point in this thread.

    http://www.businesstraveller.com/discussion/topic/Extra-runways-at-London-airports.?page=3

    I’ve reproduced what I said below to save you wading through!

    ————————————————-

    If you stop to ask how many runways there are within an hours travel of the centre of London, then by my count London already has 10 runways as follow.

    for Airlines: LHRx2, LGW, STN, LCY, LTN, SEN
    for priv Jets: Farnborough, Biggin Hill, Northolt(?)

    With improved rail connections, London could easily bring the following airports within an hour of the centre of London.

    for Airlines: BHX, SOU, Lydd, Manston, Cambridge
    for priv Jets: Oxford.

    So that brings the count to 16 runways.

    Now BHX, LGW & STN all have space for an additional runway so then the count would be 19 runways and I am sure I may have missed another option somewhere so let’s say London has potentially 20 runways.

    How many other cities have this number of runways? Probably very few so the issue to me isn’t the lack of runways, it is the fact that the runways are dispersed and not concentrated in one or two locations.

    Does this matter?

    If you are travelling point to point then runway dispersal is brilliant for the traveller as they can pick the runway most convenient for them and use the likes of Ryanair & EasyJet to fly there.

    Obviously, this only really benefits the short haul traveller as long haul point to point has not yet been a viable option. having said that, if you have travelled 12 hours on long haul I doubt you are going to complain too much about the location of runway provided it is still reasonably accessible.

    If you are making a connection with a hub & spoke airline, do you actually care where the hub airport is? With the growth of the airline alliances, I would have thought most connections these days are between airlines within the same alliance. There is no need for all alliances to be at the same hub then, indeed I would have thought the alliances would want to distinguish themselves by having their own hubs. So one solution is to have OW at LHR, Skyteam at LGW and Star at STN. Now the 3 airports have different owners, there is nothing to stop them trying to tempt a whole alliance to use their airport.

    The only advantage I can see of mega-hub to facilitate transfers between non-aligned airlines and between alliances. How often does that happen and does it justify a completely new Thames Estuary airport or expansion at Heathrow with all the issues?

    Indeed let’s not forget that many people in the UK don’t live in the London/South East area so this issue doesn’t really touch especially if they can fly point to point or make a connection with another hub airline? I am in favour of devolving APD to local parliaments so that they can encourage people to use their local airport. There are enough airlines these days that either fly point to point or can take you to their hubs for connections that we don’t need to travel to London.


    travelsforfun
    Participant

    Bullfrog, I think there’s a lot of merit in treating Birmingham and Southampton as London airports. I’m London-based and use both airports from time to time, making use of the direct trains from Euston and Waterloo respectively.

    Southampton’s size (and constraints on expansion) means it will probably only ever be a niche player – but Birmingham has a lot of potential and has been campaigning for a greater role. The forthcoming runway extension will certainly help. The biggest improvement they could make to increase their London catchment would be on rail ticketing; the Virgin Trains service is quick – and flying out on a Saturday morning, it’s easy to get a good value advance fare. But Friday evening is another matter – and in the other direction, one really needs a fleible ticket. A cheaper rail-air ticket would be the best solution, but would require the full support of both the DfT and Virgin Trains (including possible adjustment of franchise terms, if the political will is there for accepting the implied revenue loss).

    It’s worth adding that local political considerations will stop Birmingham Airport ever being renamed ‘London Birmingham Airport’!

    —–

    Bath_VIP – the fact we have 6 airports is in part a function of the capacity constraints at our hub. If an alliance switching was so attractive, one of them could have done so already – but like a reverse ‘prisoners’ dilemma’, the first one to move loses out on the hub benefits – and frees up capacity for its rivals.

    But a key problem is that there is significant transfer traffic across alliance boundaries – BA/Oneworld anchor the Heathrow hub, and both Star Alliance and Skyteam as well as non-aligned carriers have substantial interlining with oneworld. Alliance boundaries are of course becoming increasingly messy too, with airlines having multiple loyalties (e.g. oneworld member QF’s partnership with EK and Skyteam member DL’s alliance with VS).

    Moreover, the hub is not just about a critical mass of transfer traffic but also of origin/destination passengers – particularly premium passengers – attracted by the connectivity. The yield per passengers at the hub is significantly higher.

    Dispersed capacity – underpinned by different, overlapping catchments – has benefitted point-to-point travel, primarily shorthaul – but is less able to deliver, for example, new longhaul routes to emerging markets.


    AMcWhirter
    Participant

    Hello Bullfrog

    In fact there are eight designated London airports rather than six.

    Besides the six you mention, there is also London Oxford and London Biggin Hill.


    ViajeroUK
    Participant

    I am a regular user of Birmingham Airport as it is the closest to my Staffordshire home, on a selfish note it would be nice to keep the advantages of using BHX secret for a little longer!

    Many improvements in recent years, easy rail access, close to motorways, on site hotels for very early flights. Recently extended runway intended to attract larger aircraft and more direct long haul flights. Excellent KLM links to Amsterdam and the World.

    BHX are strong supporters of the controversial HS2 line, as they are confident that if this does go ahead they will gain many more passengers from south of Watford.

    London Oxford is a great little airport, it serves the occasional commercial flight, but it is mainly pjs. It is only about 40 mins (maybe a little more in bad traffic) from London so it is pretty efficient if you want to get there. However, for efficiency the undisputed king has to be LCY. Fall on to the tube after getting off your flight – brilliant! Only disadvantage is that not many planes can fly there because of the steep approach…


    SimonS1
    Participant

    A lot of sense here. I much prefer using regional airports, the only constraint is the limited route network they offer if travelling long haul.

    This is one of the reasons I prefer EK when travelling long haul. If on short hops Easyjet is fine for me and from the City there isn’t a great deal of difference (say 30 mins) in going to Stansted, Southend, Gatwick, Luton etc.


    Corporate-gal
    Participant

    I’ve used BHX for years for travelling short and long haul. I can get from my home in Gloucestershire to BHX in about an hour, compared to anything between 2.5hrs to 4 hrs to LHR (yes, it has taken me 4hrs to get to LHR in the past, especially at peak times and combined with plenty of RTAs on the M4!).

    Recently opened runway extension has meant they have just re-started Dreamliner flights with Air India and the first non-stop flights to China too (on a charter holiday basis but with a scheduled airline!).

    You also have all the choice you could want to go long haul via Dubai with Emirates, Frankfurt, Dusseldorf and Munich with Lufthansa, Amsterdam with KLM and Copenhagen with SAS – no need to go to LHR if you’re willing to go long haul via a European hub.

    My record time coming back thorugh BHX from stepping off the plane to getting into my car in the short stay car park (right next to terminal!) is 7 minutes and I’ve been home and dry in times that I have only just collected my luggage at LHR!

    BHX is brilliant!


    cityprofessional
    Participant

    A vote for Southampton from me

    Last year, a small group of us needed to get to Bordeaux. One person was recovering from a knee operation, so was not relishing the schlep from public transport or to the gate at LHR, LTN, LGW or STN

    Enter SOU. Fast, direct trains from up and down the country. And it must have been all of 20 yards from the train platform to the terminal building, and then another 10 yards to the gate(s). No queues anywhere, plentiful seating, and a perfectly pleasant flight. Probably the most stress-free air travel experience out of London (LCY included)


    canucklad
    Participant

    Schipol used to advertise itself up here in Scotland as London’s friendly,convienant and efficient airport : )


    openfly
    Participant

    On the basis that London has 8 satellite airports, would it make sense for Manchester to have a cluster of its own airports…Manchester (Ringway), Manchester (Liverpool), Manchester (Leeds/Bradford), Manchester (Birmingham), Manchester (Blackpool), Manchester (Chester) and maybe Manchester (Isle of Man).
    It makes sense…then you could fly from London (Birmingham) to Manchester (Birmingham) for free.
    The one I think is silly is that Alderney wants to be called London Alderney. Now that’s daft, as they will never link the Piccadilly Line……

    Alex…you missed London Shoreham (Brighton City Airport) !


    AMcWhirter
    Participant

    Hello openfly

    There are just eight designated London airports.

    Shoreham is not one of them and in any case it’s named Brighton City Airport whereas Oxford and Biggin Hill have been granted the status of official London airports.


    openfly
    Participant

    Ah…ok…thanks Alex.

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