FFP redemptions…Hopeless?

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  • Anonymous
    Guest

    Travellerlucid
    Participant

    Hi,
    Over the past few years, the FFP have become less and less generous with regards to redemption on air ticket.

    It costs sometimes more in tax and fuel surcharge to redeem a flight than buying the same ticket with money. I have experienced it often, particularly relevant to economy tickets redemption. This is less so on Biz and First class (although some airline like SQ restrict massively booking opportunities of Biz Class and First tickets to the point you cant redeem with them with their partner programs, M&M, Aeroplan, Flying Club).

    Relatively recently, BA has made redemption in Europe more interesting, Flying Blue follows now the same model by “absorbing fuel surcharge” ( in my opinion they should not charge these for redemption anyway!).

    This might well be due to airlines accumulate big liabilities with unused mileage debits in their books, mileage they owe in exchange of free flights, or perhaps market pressure to satisfy their loyal customers( who really will only be happy with Europe, as if they all live in Europe, and also all want to travel only in Europe).

    Are we likely to see FFP reverting to a model of offering less miles but not charging “fuel surcharge” for long hauls, or is this model likely to stay for the long run?

    What is the % of FFP owners that tend to make redemption in Biz or first( as opposed to economy) and therefore are probably ok with the current model, compared to those( like me, 400,000 avios, travel biz for work, economy leisure) who will tend to want to redeem long haul economy, hence prefer to pay the ticket with money because it is cheaper? The answer of the question might give us a clue on what the likelihood of a change in the future might be?

    Any views from my fellow BT bloggers who are much more knowledgeable than I am in this topic?


    Biztraveller74
    Participant

    Travellerlucid,
    Interesting post and thought.
    I think the competition between airlines is so fierce, that like the “prisonner dilemna”, somehow 1 airline will just massively reduce airlune surcharge and will make it known..Others are then likely to follow, but not before an other 2-3 years I guess.
    Any other views?


    MartynSinclair
    Participant

    I have virtually given up trying to use avios / airmiles for longhaul. Cost is increasing and availability in premium classes challenging to say the least.

    Conversely, European reward bookings (avios) are plentiful, cheap and easily changeable (for BA Gold).

    VS miles are expensive to use and just as hard

    M & M – have a significant number of those and just havent managed to use them either.


    VintageKrug
    Participant

    Plenty of availability on some routes, this morning I booked a Caribbean trip in the 25% off sale and last week snagged an MFU to First over Christmas during the Club World sale – you just have to know where to look!

    I have another two holiday redemption bookings for next year, all are longhaul, did three US vacation trips in Club and First this year and also a weekend break in Europe.

    It’s certainly become more challenging, but there’s still reward availability if you know what you’re doing.


    RoadKing
    Participant

    I figure VK is right. Availability is there, if you have little or no constraints on when to travel, and if you are very open minded on where to go, and start from London.

    Toss in some level of constraint, want to bring someone with you, and add for instance that you have to connect to London first, problems tower up.

    I consider my self fortunate that managed to burn the pile of miles with eb on a first class r/t to BKK with my wife last year. By selecting to start in London, I have also managed to burn off a nice piece of miles with BAEC on a first to PHX with the missus.

    Now that I am beginning to see the end of the piles of miles go away, I have promised myself to not be fooled by the loyalty scheme any more, with any airline.

    I am tired of fighting to be able to use my miles. I am tired of expectations not met.

    However, what does work, is lounge access and gate upgrades. Those are nice treats.


    RoadKing
    Participant

    I figure VK is right. Availability is there, if you have little or no constraints on when to travel, and if you are very open minded on where to go, and start from London.

    Toss in some level of constraint, want to bring someone with you, and add for instance that you have to connect to London first, problems tower up.

    I consider my self fortunate that managed to burn the pile of miles with eb on a first class r/t to BKK with my wife last year. By selecting to start in London, I have also managed to burn off a nice piece of miles with BAEC on a first to PHX with the missus.

    Now that I am beginning to see the end of the piles of miles go away, I have promised myself to not be fooled by the loyalty scheme any more, with any airline.

    I am tired of fighting to be able to use my miles. I am tired of expectations not met.

    However, what does work, is lounge access and gate upgrades. Those are nice treats.


    Biztraveller74
    Participant

    Thanks all of you for your answers.
    I certainly believe availability is there too but at what price!!
    I think that was the point of Travellerlucid initially.
    You redeemed, presumably in business or first, not eco.
    The question is if the outrageous airline surcharge will carry on!?


    VintageKrug
    Participant

    In fact, the redemptions I made were constrained as to when travel was possible (within a day or so – though I snagged exactly the days we needed) and have never had to compromise my destination (beyond easy changes like JFK vs. EWR, LAX vs. SAN).

    Of course you’re spot on that if you need to make two longhaul redemptions (connecting in London) to get where you need to go, it’s going to be more challenging.

    I think it’s more about the parts of the world you travel to; if your destination is the Far East, BA is difficult to get redemptions on because it has fewer flights, and sells most of its seats on these busy services. But when I need to travel there, I use Star and so rarely have a problem.

    Best to do as I do and redeem on routes you know have generally better availability, redeem during sales such as the current 25% off Avios sale which ends this evening, and pay for flights to destinations where redemptions can prove challenging. And diversify your mileage portfolio!


    MartynSinclair
    Participant

    Such a disparity between longhaul and shorthaul.

    If there was an award for best shorthaul – gladly vote for avios

    Apart from Vintage Krug who would obvioulsy vote avios as having the best long haul rewards and all round rewards offering

    …………does anyone have anything good to say about any other longhaul rewards offering. is there any longhaul rewards offering that offers a smooth and “very available” flights, along the lines of avios shorthaul (and I know there are more seats available for shorthaul, but there are also less travellers on long haul!).


    VintageKrug
    Participant

    Bath_VIP
    Participant

    In the past, I have played the “dream airline” game and in that, rather than collecting miles in your FFP, you would instead get cashback according to your class of travel say, 5% economy, 10% biz, 20% first. Thus you earn cash to be redeemed either in part or in whole for any future booking. Far simpler, easier to understand and easier to redeem. Indeed it seems so simple, I can’t believe no-one has tried this. the only airline that did try something similar was EOS from stansted before they went bust.

    TravellerLucid, your point about the liabilities airlines build up through their FFP is a pertinent one. I myself have consulted with travel companies about this issue and it is something they have at the front of their minds. One route to reducing the liability is to make it harder to redeem as airlines only have to show the expected #miles that will be redeemed rather than the total #miles that have been earnt. The alternative is to make it easier to burn miles (like BA shorthaul) so that the total stock of miles at any one time is lower than usual.


    Henkel.Trocken
    Participant

    Simon Calder wrote an interesting piece on Avios last Saturday:

    http://www.independent.co.uk/travel/news-and-advice/simon-calder-the-strewth-about-bas-loyalty-scheme-8320556.html

    It seems that if you want to travel LHR-SYD on BA in the next year you have a choice of one outbound and one inbound date!

    While yield management is to the fore, this does seem ridiculous.

    As I’ve said before where loyalty programmes are concerned, show me the one that is loyal to you! Have no expectations and you won’t be disappointed.


    TimFitzgeraldTC
    Participant

    For regular United fliers I have found that Mileage Plus is good. I have a client that does MAN-EWR on a regular basis and even though he is often waitlisted for the return EWR-MAN as he is top status he has always got the upgrade – if only at the gate in some instances. Otherwise it has often come through before travel and only takes 20,000 miles to upgrade on a flexible economy fare. If you are on the LHR-EWR 777 service you can often get intsant upgrade confirmation.

    I think this is the best way to work an FFP. If you are quiet then confirm straight away. If flight is looking busy and still trying to sell seats then giving the option to waitlist seats and done a) status and b) if same status then who requested waitlist first seems sensible. I can’t understand why airlines don’t do this and give the chance for FFP holders to burn miles. Keeps everyone happy.


    VintageKrug
    Participant

    As BusinessTraveller itself stated, Simon Calder is an “interesting” individual.

    I wouldn’t trust any of his pronouncements as far as I could throw them. His articles are often superficial, and for someone who makes his living writing travel articles he is extraordinary poorly informed.

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