End of stacking?

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  • Anonymous
    Guest

    BigDog.
    Participant

    Frankly am a tad shocked that slowing approaching aircraft hasn’t been in place for years given the environmental impact of stacking over cities.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3151643/Speed-limits-planes-end-airport-stacking-New-air-traffic-tell-aircraft-350-miles-away-slow-arrive-land-precise-time.html

    F1 has been accurately using simulation for over 10 years, to optimise pit stops to get clean air/minimal traffic impact during a GP.


    MartynSinclair
    Participant

    I cant see airlines willing to slow their aircraft down 1,000 miles out….


    pheighdough
    Participant

    MartynSinclair – This initiative is part of the Heathrow XMAN (cross border) arrivals management work currently being undertaken between various Air Navigation Service Providers (ANSPs) comprising NATS (UK), IAA (Ireland), DSNA (France) & MUAC (Eurocontrol Maastricht). There is a wider XMAN concept well developed but at the moment Heathrow is the only airport where this technique is being used, but others will be on line soon.

    Currently the Heathrow arrival delay is passed electronically to the adjacent ATC centres and the controllers, if there is sufficient delay, will slow a Heathrow arrival down by as much as Mach 0.04. This means that the aircraft will still have an arrival delay but instead of having, say, a 10 minute orbital delay in the stack, the aircraft will have a 2 minute linear delay (by flying slower en-route) and flying an orbit hold for a shorter period of time.

    I know that there is still delay in the network, but this is being absorbed in a more fuel efficient portion of the flight. The eventual aim is to have no stack holding at all, but this relies on accurate Departure and Arrival Management tools, and these are a few years off yet. What we are seeing though is the first step to a more co-ordinated arrival stream maximising efficiency with the airlines.

    One final note, we could have no delay tomorrow at airports like Heathrow, but that would mean an arrival rate of 30 aircraft per hour, rather than the current 40+ arrivals per hour that NATS currently provides for 16 hours per day. Having a hold gives ATC the opportunity to turn the non-uniform delivery of aircraft into a stack into a uniform delivery of aircraft to the runway, and this work to move the delay is a step change in arrivals management.

    Going forwards 1000nm is a reality. There is talk in the industry of managing aririvals from further afield (across the N Atlantic) with Target Times of Arrivals (TTAs), and these have been trialled in the past.


    dutchyankee
    Participant

    @pheighdough, is this something they currently do in Switzerland through the various national ATC’s surrounding Swiss airspace? I fly Swiss a lot and it seems they rather hold the aircraft on the ground to ensure no circling upon approach into Zurich?


    nigelbrinklow
    Participant

    Seems like a sensible idea to me. There seems no point in aircraft tanking it to LHR to then spend a lot of accumulative time (and creating a lot of accumulative pollution) over our towns, cities and countryside in a stack waiting for a slot to land.


    MartynSinclair
    Participant

    What is the current max distance out that a Heathrow arrival could be slowed down?


    pheighdough
    Participant

    MartynSinclair – Currently the procedure has aircraft starting to slow down by M0.04 at 350nm from Heathrow


    pheighdough
    Participant

    dutchyankee – Ground holding awaiting a departure slot to marry into an arrival slot is a great idea, and has been considered, but ground holding is difficult, can you imagine pushing abck at LHR and holding in a remote area for your arrival slot into FRA?
    Not feasible given the limited ground space available, but with the advent of advanced departure management tools there should not be a need for remote grouond holding


    canucklad
    Participant

    Not sure if this counts as stacking management, but I’m sure most of us have experienced that annoying delay, when you’re pushed back from the gate on time, taxi to an area near the end of the runway, your engines are switched off and you wait until LHR clears you straight in. thus avoiding a stack over the green fields of the SE.

    This happened too many times to remember, the worst delay being 120 minutes, it’s only 50 minutes flying time from EDI to LHR. Very frustrating watching AF, LH, KL planes departing before you,, even though they were scheduled after you…

    Also not sure if this counts too, but when the 380’s first started flying into LHR,, when at all possible the EK & SQ flights would follow each other in thus minimising the gap between smaller aircraft.


    pheighdough
    Participant

    canucklad – The remote holding you mention would be because of the out of area arrivals (US, Canada, Middle/Far East) who take up all the capacity at Heathrow, so there’s no room for the closer to LHR arrivals, so they push and hold (on time departure as this is measured from push back from gate) and then you can blame Air Traffic Control for the delay!!
    The A380 requires either 5 or 6nm behind successive A380’s, not for Vortex Wake but for ground infrastructure purposes. They require a Code F taxiway, and not all of LHR is Code F compliant. If you look at the Malaysian A380 departing 09R it needs to cross from T4 to the central area, as it can’t taxi down the south side.
    ATC do now vary which runway and also the arrival sequence for A380s, as if you bunch them one after the other you can end up with 3-4 successive A380s, all parking next to each other and filling the terminal at the same time, now ATC try to space them.


    MrMichael
    Participant

    I am a bit confused, many a time I have boarded an aircraft with a slight delay and then just sat on the ground while the pilot waits for a new slot to become available at LHR and LGW. That has happened to me as I recall at AMS, MAD and CPH and possibly others. This thread seems to be suggesting I have imagined it, or am I just confused in my old age?


    pheighdough
    Participant

    MrMichael – What you are talking about is an ATC Slot, as issued from the Central Flow Management Unit (CFMU) Eurocontrol in Brussels.

    This is an ATC slot applied to somewhere on the ATC network, or route you are flying. So it may be to regulate sector flow through a sector in Reims for example, or to could be poor winds at gatwick where the landing rate is lower than expected.

    There are a myriad of reasons, but my earlier point remains. Push on time (on time departure) remote hold and blame ATC.


    pheighdough
    Participant

    Whilst NATS’ CEO announced the end of Stacking, they’ve just produced this video of the worlds busiest piece of controlled airspace https://vimeo.com/132804154


    stevescoots
    Participant

    Of course if the issue of capacity had been resolved 20 years ago then we would not even be having this discussion

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