LeTigre - 15/11/2011 21:43 GMT
Check this out:
http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/generic/story_generic.jsp?topicName=dubai_2011&id=news/awx/2011/11/15/awx_11_15_2011_p0-394549.xml&headline=Emirates%20Wants%20Original%20A350-1000%20Spec
Sorry about the huge link but it is totally worth it.
Emirates' little Mr Clark is fed-up with his rivals having a 5 star rating. "I'm sick of it." He says that Emirates would have a 5 star rating except for the A330s and A340s that are too old and creaky. I didn't see QR having that problem! So, his apparent solution to getting a 5 star rating is replacing those aircraft for a standardised offering (makes sense). That was due to happen when the A350s were introduced but with him hinting at a cancellation, it could be sooner.
Skytrax sceptics listen up! If Emirates cannot get 5 stars due to aircraft condition and lack of standardised offerings yet is LOADED, consistently makes a profit and spends huge amounts of marketing, including on TV, doesn't that show you that Skytrax doesn't give fees based on ratings?
Any customer service focused airline is a good one so...Bring on the 5 star Emirates!
Also some of the two class 777 and all the flights that still have first class seats, rather than suites have poor business.
Really have to use www.seatguru.com when booking emirates to see what you will get.
I think they have four different long haul business class seats ranging from excellent to really very poor.
With all the new aircraft they order, you would think they could hold off on a new route for a little while and send an older plane for retro fitting, while using the new aircraft to replace it.
That for me is emirates main problem. Consistancy of product.
Another example of product inconsistency is QR with the A330 and the 777's. I think the term "5 star airline" must apply to the service standards of QR not the 330's seat/bed which is definitely sub par.
By the way Hengli, to shorten very long links I use www.tinyurl.com There are other services but tinyurl is the one I always remember. It's very easy to use, just copy and paste and it shortens the link for you to paste in your posts or wherever.
EK can be five star or three star, both in cabin fit and crew.
I have some of my best flights ever on Emirates and some very poor ones.
Even if I bought into the concept of five star airlines (and I don't believe that the airline industry is generally sophisticated enough to deliver consistently at this level), EK would not count amongst them in my experience.
Having said that, EK would never expect you to endure 6 hours in a short haul business class seat, unlike one European operator - according to reports on a nother thread.
One of the few 5-star classification criteria actually published by Skytrax is one that:
rule[s] out the prospect of a 5-Star Airline ranking being awarded to any airline that opted for a 10 across seating configuration on their Boeing 777 aircraft" says Edward Plaisted, CEO of Skytrax. "This is just one of many key components where we have had to set clear guidelines as to what does or does not make the 5-Star grade."
http://bit.ly/tMNAtK
IME EK do consistently deliver a five star experience in F, the suite is second only to SQ even if it is a bit plastic. It's equal to EY but exceeds all other F products by a significant margin. The food and service are generally top notch and the lounges and limos are excellent too. C can be good or not both in terms of hard and soft product and the crew can be variable. I have no idea about Y.
I think the challenge of such rapid expansion is keeping consistency and they don't manage that anything like as well as QR, my sense is EY are beginning to slip a little on consistency too. I've just had an excellent trip on WY too and I think they are one to watch.
And just who are Skytrax? And why are they the arbiter of ratings for airlines? Try and find out about them...very murky, offices pictured on their website don't correspond to their postal address. There are loads more 'unusal' things about this business, especially with the number of people who have complained their critical reviews are not posted for 'favoured' carriers. I don't believe any of their dribble, and haven't for years now.
If you like EK and feel they are five-star, then show them by giving them your business. It is the only way to honestly vote.
LeTigre - 16/11/2011 11:32 GMT
All good points, I think that one about 10 abreast 777s is a knock-out. Also, come to think of it, Emirates used to be five star but was downgraded.
By the looks of the reviews submitted on Skytrax, BA will never be 5 star again either.
Oh well, I just wish airlines would treat their customers like guests not money bags.
Hengli
"Oh well, I just wish airlines would treat their customers like guests not money bags."
A very good point, well made.
sparkyflyer - 16/11/2011 14:28 GMT
Back top StephenLondon about voting with your business, I flew EK 10 abreast, service was shocking and the 10 seats across in Y was awful, and that was just on 7 hours LHR-DXB. Not "voted" EK or indeed any 10 abreast airline on a 777 since.
LeTigre - 16/11/2011 14:45 GMT
I really like their IFE and catering but nothing else. Unfortunately, they are one of if not the most profitable and consistently profitable airlines in the industry so are upheld as a model. Their customer service is telling, however, and I fear any product standardisation would be at the level of 10 abreast or worse due to the large order of 77Ws this week (50+) which is the largest offender in this respect.
My weekly commute is LHR-DXB and almost always on EK unless I need to go to FRA or ZRH on the way in which case I use LH or LX. My EK travel is almost exclusively in F but very occasionally C if there is no availability and the wait list doesn't clear.
F really is a five star product from a point of view of limo, check in, lounge and on board product. Food is some of the very best, I think only LH is better, crew are consistently excellent in F and of course ICE is up there with the best IFE.
C is variable, the lounges are generally OK but overcrowded in DXB, on board product is less consistent and the crews are less polished. Food is still very good but service can be slow. Another crew member on the 773 or two on the A380 would be a good thing and would improve service, they seem to use a higher number in Y than some companies so it may be a matter of redistribution.
I've never travelled in Y and don't intend to but I hear mostly positive things about service and food but complaints about the seats on the 777.
All in all, they lag behind SQ, QR and so on. Their offering is good but not five star - no particular reference to Skytrax rating but in more common parlance five star is the top grade.
Senator - 16/11/2011 16:26 GMT
Henkel.Trocken, it has taken me a while to get the wordplay on your alias here. Nice, subtle point regarding beverage :-)
Good post by the way, how would you compare EK with LH/LX with their new F offerings?
Senator - thanks.
I think the new offerings on LH & LX are excellent, the best of any European airline by far. It's different to EK, the suite is nice and the IFE excellent and the food good. I still rate LH above all others for food and LX for crew so I would say LH, LX and EK are equal but different. If I could have the EK suite styled by LH with EK IFE, LH food and LX crew then I would be very happy!
Senator - 16/11/2011 18:07 GMT
Thanks for the update. I've yet to sample any ME airlines I must admit. Stood by Star and BA for a while as most of my travel is Western Europe and occasionally North America.
I love the new LX A330-300 product, and I agree about staff. As an egalitarian Scandinavian, the LH formality is slightly over the top for me but their F&B is brilliant. I tried the LX A340-300 in September, and the hard product is a bit long in the tooth. F&B was excellent to LAX, and staff brilliant.
Look forward to sampling the new BA First, and with both EK and QR making inroads in the Nordics, I guess it is only time before I get to sample their offering.
Don't get excited about new F on BA! It's an upgrade of what was already a substandard product and it remains substandard, it does not even begin to compare to LH or LX F on any front except that the Concorde Room might be on a par with the F lounge in ZRH but if the plane is on a remote stand, they won't drive you to it in your own limo, you'll get the bus like everyone else!
VintageKrug - 16/11/2011 18:17 GMT
Welcome back, Airpocket.
It has been a while indeed.
www.ba.com/first
VintageKrug, may I ask when you last flew LH, LX QR and EK F just so we all know what you are rating BA F against?
The problem should be given to Howard Moskowitz
http://www.ted.com/talks/lang/eng/malcolm_gladwell_on_spaghetti_sauce.html
- Even if you are not interested in market research generally, the points made here are highly appropriate for this discussion. It is worth 15 mins of your time.
Am sure his findings will be along the lines - you are not asking the right question; there is no such thing as the best airline(s).
MKB1964 - 17/11/2011 11:42 GMT
I have flown Emirates just the once, in First Class this year from Sri Lanka to Singapore and my experience was poor.
The suite was downgraded to a first-class seat a week before departure but, although Emirates market these separately on their website, they choose not to communicate changes.
The first-class VLML meal consisted of plain white race and standard baked beans - I kid you not. Desserts had not been loaded and we had to be given a spare from business class. (We were the only passengers in first class.)
The staff were very embarrassed by the meal, and volunteered a bottle of expensive wine as compensation before I'd had chance to say anything. However, although I had told them we were connecting to another international flight in SIN, they obviously didn't know we wouldn't be able to take it with us as security is as the gate, so we lost the wine too.
This was about the worst food I'd had on any airline in any class. The subsequent letter from Customer Relations was so bad I resolved never to fly with Emirates again.
