Interesting article from Business Traveller's sister publication, ABTN:
http://bit.ly/98rINV
British Airways will not back down on its controversial new policy of charging premium customers for seat reservations, the airline's chief executive has indicated.
BA now charges for seat reservations made up to 24 hours in advance of departure, with passengers paying £60 per sector in Club World, £20 in Club Europe and £25 in World Traveller Plus, although seat choice after this time remains free. The new policy has angered many business travel buyers, but BA chief executive Willie Walsh indicated at The Travel Convention in Malta that it would not be reversed.
"We have seen fantastic uptake," he said. "The number of customers using the facility has significantly exceeded the numbers I thought would be interested."
Walsh admitted rival carriers had an advantage over BA at the moment, but added: "It is something a number of other airlines are looking at introducing. If customers don't want to pay the charge, they don't have to. If it drives them to one of our competitors, that is what is going to happen, but we are not seeing traffic going elsewhere."
That last line seems to me be the most interesting one; how does British Airways know that they are not bleeding traffic to other carriers, particularly connecting traffic which no longer transits London?
I personally find the seating policy a real weak point in the commercial offer - in its current form it seems to me that it has a nasty habit of not just not pleasing everyone, but really pleasing almost no-one, except the accountants.
It's a policy that seems to me to be 'doomed to success' - as the analysts can clearly assess the revenue from seating charges, but have absolutely no way of accurately calculating the loss of business to other carriers.
As the airline targets longhaul leisure business at Gatwick in particular, it seems to me that couples and families will become increasingly irked by such a significant cost to ensure peace-of-mind at booking that they'll be seated together - or indeed that tour operators and travel agents will simply defer to other carriers' whose charges are lower (Thomson, for example, whose Economy seat pitch is also greater than BA's) and not even present the BA option to clients.
Meanwhile, high-fare, late-booking lone business travellers out of Heathrow are anecdotally finding preferred seats increasingly unavailable - and the natural assumption would be that they have been assigned as a result of the current policy.
It probably wouldn't be such an issue if all seats genuinely were the same, but of course a BA 744 effectively flies with five cabins (the Upper Deck considered by many to be Club+) and within each there are some definite star seats and some comparative clunkers.
I wonder, have any BT readers actually made a recordable decision, when presented with specific seat availability (or charges) on BA to fly with another carrier? Or is Mr Walsh right that it's not a big issue at all and that, in any event, other carriers are shortly to unveil similar seat charging policies?
The current BA seating policy is at:
http://bit.ly/aK8eDC
continentlclub - I tend to agree with you on your point about the extra revenues being more traceable than the lost potential business.
There's something very unpleasant, almost O'Leary-like, about the attitude of 'how much can we soak them for?'.
Although the idea of charging me for a premium cabin seat (when with every other airline I've already paid for it) annoys me, that on its own woud not make not fly BA.
But I would mentally add £120 to the cost of a longhaul trip with BA when doing a price comparison.
Paul
Please don't compare Wille Walsh with Michael O'Leary, who like him or loathe him, took a failing airline and made it into a great success. Willie Walsh may do something similar in the future.
Continental Club
This would not stop me flying BA, but then again I'm a gold card holder and get my pick of seats.
However, I have stopped flying Club Europe (unless I need to join from a non UK destination and these sectors are bundled with the CW seats) following a number of poor experiences.
My view of BA is that the shorthaul operation is well past its sell by date, lacks innovation of any kind and is by no means 'best of breed.'
I still believe that CW is innovative and good VFM; if that changes, there are plenty of alternatives.
Loyal_BA - 19/10/2010 21:27 GMT
Its an interesting topic which I don't think you can look at in isolation. As a gold card holder, I've never had to pay (thankfully). If I wasn't - would it make me travel with another airline - probably not as I wouldn't be too worried about Club Europe and getting the right seats on long haul makes a world of difference (I once had to travel in J on a 777 back from Singapore in one of the middle seats and hated it! - lesson learnt!).
That said, would seat charges plus other factors make me travel with another airline - quite possibly. I am at the point with BA which paying for seats (if it was applicable to me) would probably tip me over the edge - the straw to break the proverbial camel's back (and I have been a huge advocate of BA for 15 years!)
From my point of view, I am all in favour of this policy. Quite simply, prior to this, pax were reserving seats and changing plans and making it very difficult for me to book my favourite seat. The comment about the 5 class BA 747 is interesting becasue it is true, upstairs on the 400's is a class/cabin above the rest.
As a Gold Card holder, I now find that I have far more availability to book my favourite seats becasue thankfully, I do not have to pay for booking my seats. However, if I didnt hold a gold card, I would feel pretty upset that spending £2000+ for a ticket, the cost of a seat reservation was extra.
BA gets my support for this system.
Binman62 - 20/10/2010 09:05 GMT
Have to agree with continental club this is a real weakness in BA premium offering. My travel is increasibngly personal and with family. That BA would want a further £240 per sector on top of the £8000-£10000 fare is both absurd and greedy. You then need to add the £5 per passenger to sue their own credit card when making a booking and whilst these charges may be acceptable on discounted economy they are not in the premium classes. For the moment i avoid this charge due to the card held but that will not last forever.
BA have already lost my bussiness to Hong Kong to CX as the First product is simply light years ahead of BA. Across the pond BA is still the leader by a country mile but I have been particularly irritated by the lack of mileage redemption seats to the USA this winter and coming spring, with routes that have previously had good availability, ie SEA having nothing in First for the whole of Jan-Apr 2011.
As for a 747 having 5 canin also agree, have seats booked ex PHX in Apr next year and cannot get window seats anywhere and nothing on the upper deck.
Does anyone know what the deal is with domestic flights and pre-booking seats? I travel to Glasgow a lot and whenever I log-in to see my bookings I'm able to book my seats, I'm sure my company wouldn't pay for seat selection, I'm lucky I even get to go BA!
blondcat - 20/10/2010 12:09 GMT
I booked Club World flights to Orlando earlier this year for my August summer holiday. It was only myself and my 13 year old son traveling and I was dismayed to learn it would cost £240 to reserve seats.
Although he's a child, because he was over 12 there were no guarantees we would get seats next to each other unless I paid the reservation fee. I decided to take my chances and book for free 24 hours before the flight.
As it turned out, this was much better than usual because my favourite seats were available when I checked in on line. The only annoying thing was that on the last day of my holiday I had to make sure I was near a computer to book the return seats - meant I had to leave the park early. I didn't want to risk us being split up on the plane journey home.
It definitely wouldn't put me off flying BA in Club World - but I certainly wont ever pay for seats! I'll just make sure I'm organised and log in 24 hours before my flight.
ivornomates - 21/10/2010 08:57 GMT
dont see a problem you get the status and you get the best seats I am all in favour of this, its called looking after your best customers and a perk of One World alliance., its only the one off flyers who complain or those who spend a lifetime cribbing miles to get the chance to fly up front, hardly a revenue worry there if you ask me.
MontanaKen - 21/10/2010 10:43 GMT
BA has a curious history of advanced seat selection that ranges over the last 20 years or so. I gave up BA many years ago when their policy (several versions back) was to eliminate seating selection until the last moment. "That's what passengers want," they told me in response to an email to them. My impression (an exaggerated one, to be sure) was that BA didn't have computers, or didn't know how to use them. Think of any other airline, flying in any class. Selecting a seat from a seat map is just a part of the reservation process. No fuss, no mess, no charge.
kmcottrell - 21/10/2010 12:55 GMT
Whilst I agree that loyalty card holders should get the seats free as a perk, what irritates me most is that it is not possible to identify which seats are available before seecting a flight, or even when selecting to pay the fee.
On American Airlines there is such transparency, with some preferred seats only available to loyalty members,and I do not see why BA can not provide an equivalent service, particularly now they are partners!
Have to agree - the only way round it is to call BA reservations before confirming a reservation and asking them to look at the seat plan to see what seats are available. Then to save money book on line
what a rediculous waste of time
Continental Club you make a very good point about BA seating policy being "doomed to success" ... just where is the matrix showing how many loyal, regular customers (regular could be a couple of tickets per annum - not enough to qualify for silver or gold EC status) are defecting to rival carriers.
The same could be said for "enhancements" that have been made over the past few years - to most products with all the good things being taken away and replaced with rubbish. I know many people who have opted for other carriers, who find the products (both long and short-haul) to be more complete with rival airlines - and once they try someone else, they don't rush back to BA. Things that people miss:
-newspapers in Club to/from Gatwick;
-a choice beyond the Daily Mail, FT and Telegraph ex LHR;
-hot towels in Club Europe;
-menus in Club Europe shorter than Band 4;
-actually having what is on the menu in Band 4 service;
-full meal trays in most any class of service; a choice of meals in Club Europe, esp breakfast, and something other than the dreaded afternoon tea;
-decent wine and food in Club World;
-choice and quality in First, esp. decent wine and champagne;
-canapes in First;
-clean aircraft;
-decent amenity kits with products you may actually use in them;
-lounge food that is edible (whatever happened to the chef's theatre idea?);
-priority boarding for premium passengers;
-priority disembarkation for premium passengers;
-priority transfer (when coaches used on the ground) for premium customers;
-fast track that is actually fast;
-easy access to lounges (instead of the lounge route march).
All of this seems to have been enhanced away. Perhaps it is time to bring some of it back. Amazingly, BA may see revenue return, but then, there probably is no matrix for this...
KJH2010 - 21/10/2010 17:08 GMT
We travel to Florida 3-4 times a year. We have paid to choose our seating, but it was galling. (Especially when 5 of us fly x £120) Last flight in August we flew with Virgin UC. One of their more unfavourable decisions. Unlikely we will pay again.
I regularly fly Premium or Business long haul. Just booked to NYC and opted for Virgin in Premium. Same price as BA but free seat allocation in advance so I know I can sit with my partner and not have have to pay extra. Would have preferred BA for the mileage but the seat policy has actively dissuaded me. Seems a bit steep to be asked to pay when I am paying a lot for the fare already.
kmcottrell - 21/10/2010 18:22 GMT
As someone who has recently returned to BA after several years with American, I just do not understand the BA thinking.
I am 6ft 4ins, so legroom is important to me. I would not at all object to paying more for seats with extra legroom, if travelling cattle, and so I see its relevance there. Trying to blackmail customers with a threat that they may not sit together is however just not good customer care.
However, once paying to fly Premium or Business, I believe it is a real off-putter to have to pay extra to be sure of sitting together. Personally, I just do not pay, but I am sure that the first time that I am separated from my family will be the last time that we fly with them
I am sure that I am not alone in wondering if AA will gain more from the alliance than BA
jamesa0330 - 13/01/2011 16:00 GMT
Simply puit - THIS IS A RIP OFF - and that is the words of TWO BA execs! I's used it once and since then dumped BA in protest! Until they remove it, I as a former GOLD CARD carrier will NOT be back!
Senator - 13/01/2011 16:03 GMT
The interesting bit is that if you book a BA flight in Club through AA.com you will be able to get advanced seating at time of booking; even on none-flex fares and with no BAEC Silver or Gold.
I would agree, it seems strange to do this in Club regardless of fare and status.
kmcottrell - 13/01/2011 17:14 GMT
The other nice feature of the AA site, is that you can see seat availability before booking where there is a choice of flights. Some seats are saved for AAdvantage gold and upward members, and not generally bookable in advance by others
Come on BA catch up!
I am beginning to onder if James 0330 is a troll.
Compare his comments on this thread, to the Air France thread he started.
Seems pretty illogical.
Don't feed the troll!!
