AMDGlobal - 07/03/2010 18:20 GMT
I am a BA silver exectuive club member and am trying to use miles and a BA AmEx companion voucher to fly my family to Cape Town next February on Club World. Every date I enter comes up with "route unavailable" - and it appears they have blocked this route! I have been saving miles for 2 years and spending extra amounts on my Am Ex to have our family holiday next year. Does anyone know if BA have blocked this route? How can they justify this when they push the benefits of redeeming airmiles and the AmEx companion voucher!?
markgilman - 07/03/2010 18:40 GMT
I am not 100% sure but I think you are trying to book too far in advance. I have tried this in the past and I think you can only book 11 1/2 months prior. Then you have the problem of the return flight as this will also be outside of the 11 1/2 month booking limit.
AMDGlobal - 07/03/2010 18:41 GMT
Thanks for the response - I tried every month up to February 2011 just to see and received the same message!
markgilman - 07/03/2010 18:44 GMT
That's just great. I was also hoping to go to Cape Town next March/April with my AmEx voucher.
try booking through another countries web site - it may work. I believe airmile sear allocations and availabilty differ from country to country.
AMDGlobal - 07/03/2010 19:06 GMT
the companion voucher can only be used when booking on the UK site.
Binman62 - 07/03/2010 19:55 GMT
I have just checked and whilst there is limited availability on the return leg from Capetown, there are at least 2 seats available ex LHR in J and F every day in February 2011 and on some days coming back.
February is peak season on this route and also includes half term.
There are seats ebvery day in economy and so my suggestion would eb to call BA executive club and book out in Club back in a lower class. Not sure how this impacts on amex 2 4 1 voucher but the seats are there. Have you used the BA search engine for seats? this will show you where the seats are available for a whole month at a time.
There is also the option to go via JNB which has seats ex LHR every day in Club and at least 2 in club ex JNB on the 20th February.
Hope this helps
NTarrant - 07/03/2010 21:16 GMT
Standard rules for on line bookings, cash. miles etc is no more than 355 days in advance. You can telephone and book some flights, but remember there is a charge for telephone bookings.
VintageKrug - 07/03/2010 21:59 GMT
Some great responses so far.
Looking for four redemption seats in any premium class is going to be a struggle; CPT is one of the most capacity restricted destinations due to bilateral agreements limiting flights. Fares are high, and so is demand for redemption seats. Having said that, I have often seen 8 F and 8 J seats available for redemption on many other routes, even quite close to departure.
Add to this the obvious attractions of sunny South Africa in the middle of the British winter, the lack of significant time difference and both Half Term and Valentine's Day means seats will be extra hard to come by.
However, you are doing exactly the right thing by looking far in advance, and checking back regularly.
As has been pointed out, you can only use your Amex 2for1 voucher exUK, and on BA operated flights.
BA certainly has not "blocked" that route from redemption.
I can see Club World seats outbound every day except 6, 7, 8 Feb, and return is available on 12 of the 22 currently available days.
NTarrant is spot on to state availability doesn't hit the online system until 350 days out (355 *sometimes* if you call up), so right now 22 Feb onwards is not offered for booking online.
You may have to be flexible on your dates, class of travel, routing or consider redeeming two seats using your Amex voucher, and purchasing the others.
If you have no flexibility on a high demand route, BA Miles (and indeed any loyalty scheme redemption) is not the way to go.
Two seats are available outbound 10 of the 22 currently available days, return is less good with just 4 of the 22 days having flights.
WT+ is wide open for at least two seats for most days.
If you can find two Club return seats on dates which suit, BOOK THEM NOW using your 2for1 voucher.
Then book two WT+ seats on the same flights, so at least you can travel together.
Oddly there doesn't seem to be any F availability, but this could change so keep checking back.
There are some other other options, such as:
1. Remember you can mix the class of your booking outbound in WT+ and back in J or F, for instance.
other options, though these will not work using your 2for1 include:
2. Checking availability from different European countries, which can indeed vary from the UK available seats, but this is not for the fainthearted and would involve a bit of research and the use of a tool like expertflyer.
3. Selecting a "stopover" via Johannesburg though this does involve a short sector on BA affiliate Comair (so no 2for1 options) to CPT in a CE cabin; again you can outbound via JNB and/or return via CPT so check both routings.
4. Though not ideal, you could consider two of you flying via CPT, two via JNB on the same day, or even flying out on adjacent days (I realise this is not at all ideal but just exploring every option..!)
5. You might find availability on Iberia, a oneworld partner; this can be seen online by selecting partners, though it is likely this will not be available online until 330 days prior to travel, calling up might have more success.
6. Finally, if you can't get to the destination you need by being flexible with dates/starting country/class of travel/routings via JNB/Iberia you could consider purchasing some or all of the tickets the tickets exEUR using the ITA fare tool. This only works 330 days out, but in January BA has fares exAMS for £1879 in Club World.
P.S. Don't forget Virgin, SAA also fly to SA, so if you have mileage in other schemes this may come in handy.
Hope that helps; let us know how you get on!
AMDGlobal - 08/03/2010 09:26 GMT
Thanks VintageKrug and others. I can see the availability when I just try to redeem my miles but as soon as I try and use my companion voucher it states "Select another route". They are clearly blocking this on the CPT and other very profitable routes! This is extremely frustrating and in my view very misleading by BA who promote the companion voucher as a major benefit. I have family in CPT and have been spending lots on the AmEx voucher to boost my miles and to get the companion voucher - if the route to CPT is blocked (which it clearly is for the companion voucher) then in my view this is mis-selling and I would love to speak to senior management at BA about how they justify this. I am a frequent business traveller on BA and this just alienates a once loyal customer!
VintageKrug - 08/03/2010 09:55 GMT
BA is not blocking this route.
T&Cs clearly state the use of the Amex voucher is subject to the usual redemption capacity restraints, so this is not mis-selling either.
The companion voucher does not "create" a newly available redemption seat. You have to work within the available redemption availability.
There is availability for two seats on the same flights outbound and return in Club during February, as I pointed out above; I know because I just did a dummy booking using my current voucher and could book these tickets fine.
I would suggest searching for available dates for two redemption seats in Club ITHOUT selecting your 2for1 voucher (out 4 Feb, back 14 Feb looks fine, with a reasonable stay in Cape Town out on a Friday, back on a Monday).
Once you know there is availability, then enter those exact dates, this time selecting the "I want to use my companion voucher" button.
If it still doesn't work, then call up.
Indeed, for Gold card holders extra availability is made available in economy should you really need to get there on a day when there are no redemption seats available. THough very poor use of miles.
Have you tried the alternatives I set out above, such as getting availability on flights just to JNB using your 2for1 voucher?
South African routes have in no way been "blocked",an routes are never available for regular redemption but not voucher redemption; if you are seeing this issue it is a tech error and you should call up and book over the phone, ensuring you don;t pay the extra fees.
AMDGlobal - 08/03/2010 10:52 GMT
All I can tell you is that when I select just two seats (using the companion voucher) it states “Select Another Route” for every month between now and February 2011. When I just look at redeeming miles without selecting companion voucher I see availability for 2 seats. If this is not blocking a route what is?!
Binman62 - 08/03/2010 16:18 GMT
AMDGlobal
Your are quite right it does not work and an explanation from BA is indeed required.
I have just tried to book two seats LHR CPT without voucher and availability was good on the 1st coming back 14th.
Did the same with amex voucher and nothing whatsoever is available.
If any else has a voucher could they also try as this simply should not happen.
AMDGlobal - 08/03/2010 16:21 GMT
Thanks Binman62 - I thought I was being very stupid for a while! I look forward to more feeback from other users. Any idea how to get a meaningful response from BA?
VintageKrug - 08/03/2010 16:54 GMT
This route has not been "blocked".
Call them up, where there is redemption availability, this inability to use your voucher should not happen.
Works fine for me, so probably a glitch on your account.
AMDGlobal: I don't think that there's any kind of conspiracy for BA to have to explain here, having had a play around with availability myself.
Firstly, the best way to check BA Miles availability is always as a series of one-way journeys. If you do this, you'll see that availability going down to Cape Town is actually quite good in February, but look carefully:
The direct flight from London to Cape Town is only available on certain days; on other days the miles availability is via Johannesburg with the final leg on Comair. This immediately (as posted above) precludes the use of your 2-4-1 voucher.
Hence it's quite correct that you will see different availability when you check the '2-4-1' box than you'll see if you look for 'miles only' seats. This exact scenario applies to Binman's search; availability is only 'good' via Johannesburg - which is not allowed with a 2-4-1 as the domestic sectors are on Comair.
There's another characteristic of the search process at play here though too; namely that when the system is asked to check availability for both an outbound and an inbound as a return itinerary, then when no availability (yet) exists for the inbound, the outbound won't show up either in some circumstances. Specifically, this occurs when the latest available inbound seats are available only *before* the date range of the outbound seats requested.
It's a logic argument - and a practical example would be: you search for a return itinerary flying out on the 11th February, returning on the 18th February. Whilst there may indeed be outbound availability on the 11th, the latest available/remaining inbound seats are on the 30th January. Since this is clearly an impossible itinerary, and the sales horizon has not yet extended beyond a date when further inbound inventory after the 12th February exists, the query fails completely and you get a total 'no availability' message.
In your case then, your situation could well be being frustrated by your searching for return availability in the first instance, but also because it is additionally the case that, currently, direct (2-4-1 relevant) inventory inbound from Cape Town is almost non-existent. It's not blocked and it's not somehow different because a 2-4-1 is involved beyond any other condition than a 2-4-1 is not valid on Comair.
Specifically, you do need to call because your best chance of being able to leverage the super value of the 2-4-1 is to fly direct from London to Cape Town, but back from Johannesburg where the direct availability is relatively plentiful. Such an open jaw is perfectly possible with a 2-4-1, but it's not yet bookable online.
You'll then simply have to purchase a one-way itinerary CPT-JNB to begin your journey home, at a fare which should be reasonable this far out and which your telephone agent should be able to arrange for you once the miles booking is confirmed.
I do hope that I've not missed something else and that I've managed to explain myself reasonably clearly; I appreciate that there are nuances to every programme and that describing them can be somewhat blinding to those more used to the detail of other programmes, or new to the genre as a whole!
Good luck though and do let us know how you get on.
VintageKrug - 09/03/2010 07:04 GMT
Wow! That's great info continentalclub!
The vaguaries of booking online are indeed complex, but the informed consumer can always get what they need if they are prepared to educate themselves.
I hope AMD can use this information to get the seats he needs, though would urge speed as having now announced to several hundred (if not a thousand) BT readers the plentiful availability of Club World flight to SA in February, those seats will no doubt book up even faster!
Just a point to note; although you 2for1 cannot be used for the Comair connector flights between J'burg and CPT, you could simply pay for those flights, and you 2for1 would still be valid outbound from London to CPT/JNB, and returning from JNB.
Best to do extensive research online, and then call up on book the more complex open jaw 2for1 itinerary through BAEC. I find them more able and better disposed to deal with queries quickly early in the mornings, so tend to call then if possible.
AMDGlobal - 09/03/2010 09:31 GMT
Thanks continentalclub. I did call EC last night and was told that the problem was the return from CPT. I did not know that I could return via a different location on 2-4-1 deal and pay for the connection. The fact that I am trying to get 4 seats and during half-term may mean that it's a non-starter or that I'll have to pay for a seat or two but at least it gives me more options.
Good to hear that you're making progress, AMDGlobal and, as I thought it, it seems that it is indeed the inbound availability that is proving challenging.
If the availability allows it at the moment however, then I would also seriously consider employing VK's strategy of booking two seats on each of two consecutive days, in the hope that additional availability will open up on one of the days to allow you to travel together.
This was precisely my modus operandi (albeit on Singapore) when arranging to get five of us to Australia and New Zealand last year. With the exception of just one sector, the availability did indeed appear and we were able to fly together for the additional cost of a fairly marginal change fee. Bear in mind that any additional availability may only open up quite close to actual departure, however.
Your original post illustrates a very salient point too; it's easy to forget that mileage programmes were only ever developed to reward loyal customers with the opportunity to occupy otherwise unsold seats.
Nothing about that concept has changed and, indeed, as revenue management has improved and the economic climate has deteriorated, the number of unsold seats should in theory decline as businesses become leaner.
However, concurrently, airlines have commoditised their programmes to such an extent that it's entirely understandable that many programme participants feel that they've 'bought' those miles balances that they now hold, one way or another, and have done so on the basis that redemption will be straight-forward.
When they hit the underlying and inescapable fact that redemption has always and will always only be available for seats that are, or are expected to remain, unsold, they're likely to be not just disappointed but actually of the opinion that they themselves have been mis-sold something.
On that basis, the savvy traveller should always start by accepting that there will be very few unsold seats, during school holidays, to popular leisure destinations, at convenient times. A few of the better schemes, and I count the Executive Club amongst them, do sprinkle some availability around, to maintain a level of credibility and to reward those who look and book early. If you see the seats, then, I'd always say: book quick!
VintageKrug - 09/03/2010 10:07 GMT
Or even "book quickly" ;)
