Travellator - 22/07/2011 05:16 GMT
Mrs T and I are on a very long haul in CW at the end of October. We heard from some friends whom we havent seen for a few years that they were returning to the UK from our destination on the same date that we arrive and there was a chance to meet up for an hour or so. BA e mailed me yesterday to say our timetabled arrival was put back by half an hour - not much but enough to write off our proposed rendezvous. I phoned the nice people on the Silver line explaining our predicament and could we change to the earlier flight which has loads of availability. The nice lady said NO, I asked could I speak to her nice supervisor, the nice lady said there was no point as her nice supervisor would say NO also.
Yes rules are rules but Mrs T and I by the end of the year will have taken 7 CE returns, 1 very long haul in F and thisplanned very long haul in CW each.
Thank you very much for the hot towels and nuts last week in CE but a bit of flexibility from time to time would be appreciated !
VintageKrug - 22/07/2011 06:49 GMT
With respect, 7 shorthaul business class returns and one trip to Australia in First Class (and I'm assuming those were paid trips, and you mentioned that some of the haven't yet been completed) isn't really as commercially important in the scheme of things as one might imagine.
That sort of "Do You Know Who I Am" reasoning is rarely going to bring the expected bending of the rules.
What perplexes me is that you mentioned there is "availability" on the earlier flight. Do you mean "award availability" or just that you can book a paid seat on the flight?
If there is award availability, I would recommend you call back and hope for another agent, and avoid calling after hours or at the weekend as there are more supervisors available during office hours who can help resolve issues. There is no reason whatsoever why you can't switch flights if award availability exists.
If you can't find availability right now, keep checking back regularly, especially at the 21, 14 and 7 days pre flight stages, at which point you may get lucky and be able to switch flights.
Flexibility might suit in this situation, but if everyone could open up award availability to earlier/later flights on a whim you can imagine the chaos this would cause.
Travellator - 22/07/2011 07:47 GMT
Didnt mean to sound 'Snooty '
Flight in October is paid not awards.
A well known personality once used the ' Do you know who I am ' approach in a restaurant to which the waitress replied ' How long have you been suffering from memory loss '
Must stop sounding off at 6.30 am !
VintageKrug - 22/07/2011 07:55 GMT
LOL
Travellator
Your posting did not read as 'snooty' to me, in fact I cannot read into it that you attempted to coerce the BA rep at all. You just comment about your travelling pattern in the ext para, as a matter of fact.
I fly more frequently than you, much more frequently and my business is obviously not important to BA either, as I encountered the same response as you.
BA had emailed me to say strike action at CDG might delay my CDG LHR flight. This flight had a fairly tight connection to a longhaul flight (both club.) When I requested a change to the earlier flight (which had capacity), you would have thought I had committed the crime of the century.
I got the 'no point in putting you through to the supervisors spiel', like you, but applying the Maltese conflict resolution technique of persistence, I was 'escalated' - wonderful word.
The supervisor tried to argue that I was asking for a change on an inflexible ticket, to which I countered 'to what purpose did they email me?'
We eventually reached a position where he was saying that you can't change, you may miss your flight, we'll re-route you on Star Alliance at our expense.
I recapped this faithfully and then asked him how this was a commercially sensible stance, when the airline had space on the earlier flight and a change was a win-win outcome.
He did then change me, as a 'favour.'
I have since changed my airline for the middle east to Etihad, who offer flexible tickets at less than the cost of BA inflexible tickets.
I would advise you to think about using another airline, who will show more flexibility in return for your hard earned cash.
At the end of the day, whatever the size of your spend, you are still income and the agents giving you a hard time (refusing to put you through to a manager is ureasonable, IMHO) are overheads.
There is good choice out there.
I hope your trip goes really well.
Travellator - 22/07/2011 08:52 GMT
DoS
Thanks for those words, in many ways I am avictim of my own loyalty to BA. I have flown with them as BEA on the Highlands and Islands service in a Viscount which landed on a beach runway and many trips on a BOAC VC10 from Rawalpindi via Amman to LHR.
On BA treavel the most benefit I get is huge miles plus a companion voucher at least once a year.
Might try writing to them , there is time - unless there are any BA spies scanning this site who may want to help ?
esselle - 22/07/2011 09:06 GMT
It never ceases to surprise me that the BA default remains "the customer must accept the rules", and how easily their reps tend to become irritated when the logic of the rules is questioned.
I recently spoke to somebody in EC (gold) to say I had spent over 30 minutes trying to ammend a booking via the website but there seemed to be a fault; my request for help was turned down as "there is nothing wrong with the website, you must be doing something wrong".
I decided to write 100 lines " I must try harder ".
Loyal_BA - 22/07/2011 09:35 GMT
I took a trip to New York in F at the end of last year, then about 2 weeks before, my wife and son were able to come however I needed to change the outbound date by 1 day - there was plenty of availability and wasn't worried about which specific flight, given there are so many
I rang the You First and explained I was on a ticket which couldn't be changed however if I could change it I was prepared to buy two more seats in F for my family, therefore BA would be generating two more sales.
They a) could not see my point of view and kept pointing out that the rules of the ticket were clear and b) they were very sorry but they had strict rules to follow and no one at all could do anything about it.
I pointed out that commercially, they were turning down nearly another £6k which (in my view) didn't make good commercial sense, I did acknowledge though that the original ticket was inflexible - I had hoped that someone with a modicum of common sense and a degree of empowerment would be able to help me. Alas not ...
The outcome - I went on my own on the original date, my wife and son stayed at home, the F cabin was two thirds empty outbound and in return, I wasn't very happy, my wife and son were not very happy, BA lost revenue and another chunk of my good will towards BA was eroded away.
So a lose:lose for everyone I would say
I know that BA is a very large company and we are a small sample size, but reflecting on the amount of these types of comments one encounters in recent years, it does raise the question whether BA has a systemic problem in commerciality.
I understand that providing flexibility on an inflexible ticket is not a smart move per se, but when one reads the comments on this thread, it does beg the question.
esselle - 22/07/2011 09:47 GMT
But, Loyal_BA, there is a silver lining to your dark cloud!
At least the BA agent you tried in vain to persuade to help you out will have had a nice warm feeling knowing they had managed to adhere to the rule book!!
VintageKrug - 22/07/2011 09:55 GMT
I'm afraid I don't have much sympathy here.
If any airline got a reputation for making inflexible fares flexible on the whim of the customer and/or agent then no-one would pay a premium for flexibility.
That would bust the business model.
Commercially, the small (if vocal) few who are expecting "something for nothing" from an airline are not significant when compared to the many who pay a premium for flexibility.
The lesson is, if you need flexibility, book into a flexible fare bucket.
Even Aleksandr Orlov couldn't put it more plainly.
esselle - 22/07/2011 09:59 GMT
Disagree.
This is not really a debate about flexible vs. inflexible ticketing. It is more to do with seeking opportunities to drive profitable revenue whilst delivering excellent customer care.
I imagine if Loyal_BA had been offered the chance to change as he had asked to in return for, lets say, a £100 admin fee, he would have jumped at the chance.
NTarrant - 22/07/2011 10:04 GMT
The problem , particularly in Loyal_BA case is that staff are not empowered to think, but to follow the rules. It makes perfect business sense to be flexible to gain more business. Perhaps it is about time that BA (and other organisations) started to look outside the box and see that in a case like this no one "wins".
It is really a management issue to be able to trust staff to do the right thing for the company.
Going back to the original post, there is no particular reason for BA to change the flights, other than just helping the customer. The tickets were purchased on an inflexible basis and the customer has to understand that is the rules, otherwise what is the point of non-flexible tickets?
VK
Let's look at the facts, shall we?
On this thread, you have three cases with inflexible tickets
1) Travellator, where BA has caused him the problem through a schedule change
2) My example, where the motivation for change was industrial action (force majeure) which could have inconvenienced me greatly and cost BA a lot of money
3) Loyal BA, who proposed to purchase two more F class tickets if BA would change his by one day
None of these strike me as cases motivated by gaining "something for nothing."
It would be ludicrous for any business to give concessions willy nilly, but equally it is not commercially smart to apply inflexible rules to all situations, unless your airline is called Ryanair and your business model is designed around it.
NTarrant - 22/07/2011 10:28 GMT
Disgusted I fully agree with you on points 2 and 3. But Travellator was only having his flight changed by 30 minutes on a "very long haul" route. I don't think that really counts.
I was travelling LHR-DUB-LHR with EI about four years ago and the return flight was cancelled, the choice was one an hour earlier or two hours later. I had no option of cancelling the trip or moving it to another day, because apparently the time change was less than four hours. I could not even change the outward.
Nigel
I can see your point from a practical perspective. I guess what I am saying is that he would not even have asked if the schedule had not been changed, so not, in my opinion, someone to be classed as 'seeking something for nothing', which (to me) means a chancer.
Loyal_BA - 22/07/2011 11:16 GMT
VK,
At the time I purchased the ticket I didn't require any flexibility, hence why I purchased the fare I did.
I don't expect anything for nothing - you pay for the class of travel you want to travel in, not the one you aspire too. I understand why BA and any other airline for that matter has rules, as without them, there would be chaos and they would be out of business.
I called You First in the vain hope that staff were empowered to be flexible where it makes commercial sense to.
The lesson is actually - if you treat premium customers like cattle, don't expect them to continue to use the airline!
Simples ..... :)
Travellator - 22/07/2011 11:20 GMT
I am aware of non flexibilty when buying a non flexible ticket. I also stated that the flight has only changed by 30 minutes which in all my travel over the years would never have affected me.
What it has done is negate the opportunity of meeting up with some dear friends who we have not seen for years or in the foreseable future.
VintageKrug - 22/07/2011 11:23 GMT
Why don't you ask them to change their plans; I am sure their airline will fully understand and be happy to switch their tickets.
Travellator - 22/07/2011 11:40 GMT
Dont want to get into details about the other parties plans but that is not an option regardless of their airlines flexibility, for all I know it could be BA.
Didnt mean to cause such a stir at 6.30 am this morning but it has obviously touched a nerve or two !
Going to get out of this now with one final scenario - supposing the half hour time table change were to put us out of time to connect to another airline and not simply to meet friends ?
