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Some interesting news out of Auckland on the launch of a "lie-flat bed" in ANZ's economy cabin:
http://www.businesstraveller.com/news/air-new-zealand-to-launch-a-lie-flata-economy
What do readers think of the concept?
What next? They will follow this by giving them decent food in economy as well. I'm more in favour of the Ryanair approach, making them stand for the flight. Seriously, as someone who mixes economy and business travel, this could be interesting, depending on the pricing structure adopted.
As an NZ Gold frequent flyer, who usually flies in business premier or premium economy, it is an interesting proposition. If travelling as a couple I'd seriously consider this over premium economy. Given most NZ long haul flights are overnight, I would have thought it would be a serious option for couples.
The premium economy product is getting up with the best too, with a 2-2-2 configuration on a 77W, this is looking a lot closer to business class of not too long ago. It will be particularly interesting to see the reaction on the highly competitive LAX-LHR route as NZ will be light years ahead of BA and VS, let alone UA, AA and DL.
What happens during turbulence if you are sleeping across the seats in economy? Is there a new design of seatbelt to enable the user to strap themselves in - otherwise they will have to be woken each time the seatbelt sign comes on...
I am sure that there will be a market for this, I can't say that it would be what I'm personally looking for. From the pictures it does not look that comfortable and as excessbaggae says what happens if there is turbulence.
I have only flown three times with ANZ and all in economy and was impressed by the service and food. The IFE is far better than any other I have used. As I say I am sure there will be a market for this particularly given the length of some of ANZ flights
I've just added a few larger images to the piece which give a better impression of the new offerings in economy and premium economy:
http://www.businesstraveller.com/news/air-new-zealand-to-launch-a-lie-flata-economy
I've also contacted our reporter Andrew Gough who is still out in New Zealand, to see if he can clarify the query about seatbelts in economy.
Thanks Business Traveller - the premium economy seat looks great - almost like a business class offering!
A nice innovation for vertically-challenged couples who like spooning - I wonder how many people will get tripped up over feet sticking out into the aisles?!
And did you notice hidden in some of the publicity photos, the configuration for the rest of the poor sods in economy? 3-4-3 just like EK and KL. Maybe ANZ isn't being so wonderfully generous after all...
Good point cityprofessional - it would be interesting to know what the length of the three seats put together is? I think the seat width of an economy class seat is around 18 inches, which would equate to 54 inches or 4.5 feet - not really enough for a proper bed!
This probably doesn't include the armrests though, so i may be doing them a slight disservice...
Hats off to NZ for doing something to both Economy and Premium Economy. So many of their flights are ultra-long-haul (for me, ten plus hours in the air is ultra long haul), this would be an ideal solution, esp. for a couple or a family with a small child.
Apart from seatbelts, what about being seated on your own when loads are light - will the seats be operating as normal seats, or could you make a bed out of it?
The new Premium Economy looks super. Air NZ already serve a business class style meal (take note other carriers) which makes this product very attractive. And the new Business Premier obviously works - to the point where Air NZ have a new patent on the seat.
Anyone note the new crew uniform? That pink sure is...um...different.
Well done, Air NZ! Top carrier for innovation 2010, I think!
Product innovation is excellent to see in an industry so blighted by stories of product and service downgrades. It's probably particulary essential for small carriers like Air New Zealand, since all their long haul routes operate in competition with other carriers - and announcements like this maintain their share-of-voice.
The Premium Economy seat will be the one to watch, I think, especially with its offset 2-2-2 configuration and super cabin ambience. Business class catering for PE passengers is also a serious differentiator and helps justify the not-inconsiderable incremental cost of PE over Y.
Of course, the principal driver behind the inclusion of J catering in PE was the mixed-class upper deck on the 744s that these new 777s are slated to replace. With that practical, operational necessity removed, Air New Zealand will hopefully maintain their conviction that it's a worthy component of the soft product. The omens are good; the slightly less-fanfared announcements about general catering improvements (especially in terms of galley equipment) are very welcome indeed, though they will depend hugely on getting the Auckland crews (who are every bit as fractious as Finnair's and BA's!) behind the new service standards.
Only time will tell whether the CX Y-style seat adjustment in PE will prove as comfortable as the more traditional fixed squab and tilting backrest arrangement.
The Skycouch is, naturally of course, today's headline-grabber, though I think the practical implications of the seat, in use, are hugely compromised. As excessbaggage says, a quick bit of maths (the average 777 Y seat width is actually 17.5ins) produces a combined seat width which cannot, including armrests and frames, be even 5 feet long. You'll note from the press photos that the models actually have their heads up the sidewall of the aircraft. You'll also note that the seats fore of the recumbent models are upright, whilst those they occupy are reclined. As Air New Zealand are not adopting shell-style seats in Y, encroachment into the Skycouch space will take place.
The suggestion of a 1100USD per flight fee between the two passengers occupying the Skycouch is not inconsiderable in the acutely price-sensitive Y-cabin, and there are bound to be issues when passengers who've paid the fee board a lightly-loaded service and believe (rightly-or-wrongly) that they could have avoided the fee if they'd known that seats would have been unoccupied anyway. Remember, specifically, that these seats can only be of interest to leisure travellers, not business ones (unless they're very close!) and leisure travellers are more likely to buy on price than schedule, loyalty, or regular experience.
If the seats do indeed prove successful commercially, and they generate licensing revenue for Air New Zealand, then it will be excellent news for the company and indeed the country, as it will help secure their long term self-determination in terms of aviation.
Also excellent are those new uniforms; a huge improvement on the old!
Speaking honestly though, and putting my neck on the line, I think the seats will end up being given away free to status-holders travelling in pairs, if not consigned to the same place as airline ash trays fairly shortly.
Overall though, it's great to see airline good news that's not just about First Class.
These new products look and sound great.
Have we now come full circle? ANZ are offering three classes - standard economy, value and confort-conscious premium and very expensive luxury. Leaving aside the brand names, 10 years ago they would have been described as economy, business and first.
Hi everyone !! ANZ it is your stage and spotlight !
We have waited for such bold innovations in Economy Class and it is surprising and great that ANZ really upholds its good name and products in both Prem. Economy and Economy. As I am a fan of full flat bed--it is a big "yes" for the Skycouch ! Whether it could be smaller for some--it is still a great way to lounge or sleep in those seats/space --regarding other Y pax being disturbed because of your lounging or sleeping position--believe me a lot of them would refer on booking a skycouch in their flights inorder to have the freedom of space and mobility in such long haul flights, the odd look about occupying three seats for one person or two will only be in the beginning as it will be a common sight in the future. It is also good to hear that improvements on catering has been done as well !
Just a huge " kudos" to those in ANZ !! This really shows other competitors in the market that you have taken the issues of pax regarding improvements in Prem. Eco and Economy Class seriously and by responding to it with a huge idea and really innovative approach --- I am a fan of ANZ Prem Eco before--now I have the new Prem Eco and the Skycouch to choose from and this makes me more a huge fan!--definitely a huge success as here the customers/pax are the winners !
Thanks ANZ !! Sincerly I wished I had expected such things from BA--well you can't have everything--right !
A couple of points to add about the new offering. The premium economy seat will feature a recline of nine inches, and the layout of the 777-300ER aircraft will be as follows:
246 in economy (including 66 seats creating 22 Skycouch combinations), 50 in premium economy and 44 in Business Premier.
Indeed, all looks very refreshing, innovative. For once, concentrating on something for the benefit of the traveller, rather than purely seen to rake in extra cash for some failing Airlines.
Business travel has changed. We all know this, see it, feel it on BT.
Airlines need to be in step with this, not with the recent imposing of changes, that are felt strongly by the traveller (Food, luggage allowance, Seat allocations, FFP benefits etc). Like any business approach, you lose loyalty if you don't inform, involve, & communicate management of change, as in any large Organisation. ANZ Have the teams to bring creativity a-new, cutting edge,Unique, not easy in the mass of concepts in the Airline Industry today. This is a reflection of listening to customer responses, monitoring the market correctly & responding to it, & sincerely trying to offer a better quality of experience of travel.
This is a very effective strategy, of securing their customer base, through a unique, high quality travel experience. In this way they will have greater demand for their services. The "strategies" of some airlines, clearly have put at great risk their customer base, loyalty, & financial future. It is not with short term gain/ Instant Financial gratification changes, as carried out by BA. Cramming more of us in on an Aircraft, cutting the services & facilities, & charging more, will NOT work. I for one, am avoiding such airlines, my loyalty & business will remain with those operating ethically, & fairly to us as Travellers.
This is a huge sector where choice is abundant. Such an Airline deserves to fly without their seats being unoccupied, even if they fit less people in, the Load factors will be much higher. A very sensible & fair business strategy. Congratulations to ANZ...its just a pity you are not the UK's National Airline...then we would have something to be very proud of!
On a few occasions I have been lucky enough to be travelling on a lightly loaded flight and managed to obtain three joining economy seats to myself. With the arm rests flipped up I was able to get a good sleep, even though the seats cushions where not specifically designed for this lying position. A few blankets helped to improve the comfort in the area under the arm rests.
After the first time this happened I worked out purchasing three discounted economy seats was considerably cheaper than buying one business class seat. This was many years ago, not during a recession, so discounted business class seats were not so easily available. Although very tempted, I have never tried to make a booking for three economy as I feared there could be problems at check-in and boarding. Ensuring the airline would honour the second and third seat when there is only one person travelling. Would their computer system think the second and third seats are for a no show passengers and if the flight was over booked allocate them to other people? Or just as bad not keep the three seats reserved next to each other?
It is great to see ANZ expand on this concept. However, any airline which could solve the concerns I have previously mentioned and honour three seat seats together for a single traveller, would gain my interest. Even with the current seat and without a continuous cushion. Obviously, this would only work where the seat arm rests flip up. i.e. Not in BA World Traveller plus which has fixed arm rests.
Other considerations: 1) If I bought three seats and actually flew then could I claim for triple miles and tier points. Probably not. 2) I would probably be entitled to pay less UK passenger departure tax too. I doubt the computers could cope with that either.
It's perhaps worth clarifying that Air New Zealand will be moving to ten-abreast in Y on these new aircraft (from the current nine on their existing 777s), with a seat pitch an inch less than that enjoyed by Pacific Economy passengers on their current 744s (though an inch more than their 777s).
For the up to 180 Y passengers who are not seated on Skycouches therefore, and for those who are seated in Skycouch seats but who have not paid the supplement, this is arguably a significantly retrograde development in terms of personal space.
The increased space-take of PE has got to be paid back from somewhere - and that's Y pitch and width in this case.
The upgrades to IFE screens, connectivity etc in Y will mitigate the impact somewhat, of course - but NZ's Y seat pitch has long been the foundation of much of its leisure-market communications, so a new promotional strategy will be required. Perhaps, of course, it's hoped that the noise created by Skycouch will take up the space once occupied by the 34" message.
Agreed with the above. But economy is all about economy. Cheap is more important than comfortable. Customers that won't pay a £500 premium for a flat bed often won't pay a £20 premium to have 34 inches rather than 32. Commercially, airlines have to make economy cheaper rather than better.
Premium classes have to be made better rather than cheaper (flat beds etc.). This creates a bigger and bigger gap between the two both in terms of price and comfort - hence the filling of the gap by new products such as premium economy, extra legroom seats and, now, impromptu sofas.
Airlines won't like issuing 'empty seat tickets'.But it would be the simplest thing in the world (and therefore inordinately difficult) to enable a passenger to 'block' a seat at booking or OLCI, for a fee of course.
MichelAngelo: you're absolutely right about Economy being all about economy. It's remarkable how many (particularly but not exclusively) leisure passengers willingly go for a £20/2.5% round-trip saving but lumber themselves with a 7 hour or 9 hour connection that they only regret when it's too late.
Lots of them, of course, are on once-in-a-lifetime trips when the Antipodes are involved, and the chances of them making another trip like that in the short term are limited - though admittedly growing as the years pass and propensity to travel grows - so repeat custom, recommendation and referral is less of an issue/risk.
The snag for NZ in this market is, and has always been, that it can't compete with the cost base of the Asian and Mid East carriers to Asia and points West and, to a certain extent, with the US ones going the other way. Their lower-cost, outsourced Zeal crews only operate A320s, not long haul. So, accepting that their fares were always going to be higher in Y than MH, TG, EK and even SQ and CX, they went down the route of a clear differentiator with 34" pitch.
This then marks quite a significant change for them - perhaps the way that they've crunched the numbers apes BA's model slightly more, and majors on premium yields to support effectively subsidised Y fares.
I still think that the Skycouch is PR-spin and little more though. TV3 in NZ are reporting a likely fare of 7000NZD (3000GBP) AKL-LHR for a couple. That's 1500GBP each, when EK are selling Y at 687GBP and CX at 699GBP this year.
I wish NZ well, and I'm really impressed by the potential of the PE cabin in particular, but were I a shareholder I'd seriously question any significant revenue forecasts being pinned on Skycouch.
Hi everyone, and greetings from sunny Auckland.
To answer the query about seatbelts, here's what ANZ said:
"The ‘normal’ seatbelts on the seat have been made slightly longer to allow the flexibility for someone to use them while they are lying down. When a second person is also lying down beside them, then they would be given a standard extension seat belt to loop through the first person’s belt similar to how infants are dealt with today.
"Provided the passengers use it in this way there is no reason to wake them for turbulence."
Also, picking up on another point raised, the B777-300ER economy seats are actually narrower than on the B777-200ER, at 17" rather than 17.8". ANZ has also slimmed down the aisles in the EC cabin, allowing it to squeeze in a 3-4-3 configuration on the new plane, as opposed to the 777-2's 3-3-3.
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