VintageKrug - 20/11/2010 15:47 GMT
This info was current as at 17/11. I reckon (though not certain) there are about 80 longhaul aircraft with First on board in the fleet, so the rollout is almost 20% complete now:
Boeing 777-236
G-VIIU, G-VIIV, G-VIIW, G-VIIX, and G-VIIY
Boeing 777-336
G-STBA and G-STBB
Boeing 747-436
Hi-J: G-BNLK, G-BNLO, G-CIVF, G-CIVG, G-CIVH, G-BYGA and G-CIVM
Mid-J: G-CIVN
Aircraft believed due to re-enter service with NF in the next few weeks:
747-436: G-BNLV, G-BNLU
777-236ER: G-YMMK (12 seater)
777-336: G-STBC
www.ba.com/first
[EDIT: as at 19/2 29 aircraft have new F]
joeadvisory - 20/11/2010 15:56 GMT
do any of these go to miami.
completely sick of old 1st on miami even club is better or otherwise fly to atlanta and go on new delta which is what i have been doing last few months
travelworld - 20/11/2010 16:45 GMT
It's well worth it. I flew to DXB return last weekend in New First on a 777-300 and found it a vast improvement- in fact rather better than the reviews I'd read which implied it was more evolutionary rather than revolutionary. I thought the seat was much more comfortable, the BMW-esq I-Drive seat adjustment impressive and the IFE superb. Plus, the adjacent personal wardrobe was excellent. Only disappointment was that the loo looked a bit bare shorn of all the fake wood, not that the fake wood looked that good.
VintageKrug - 20/11/2010 16:55 GMT
Here is one of the best Trip Reports currently available for New F:
www.airliners.net/aviation-forums/trip_reports/read.main/178062
Loyal_BA - 20/11/2010 18:02 GMT
I understand that GYMMK is already back in Service with NF!
G-BYGB is also fitted with NF and G-STBC arrived in LHR yesterday ready for service.
Loyal_BA - 22/11/2010 15:20 GMT
G-STBC entered service today on BA107 to DXB
VintageKrug - 22/11/2010 15:41 GMT
So that's 17 aircraft with new F.
Does anyone know how many aircraft have new F in each of LHR and LGW?
Loyal_BA - 22/11/2010 17:30 GMT
I believe all of the current aircraft fitted with New First are based at LHR.
That said, there are a few examples when aircraft reposition to fly from LGW for certain flights, although I have no idea why and when those decisions are made.
For example
G-VIIU flew LGW-BGI-LGW on 20/11
G-VIIW flew LGW-Bermuda-LGW on 16/10
G-VIIU flew LGW-Bermuda-LGW on 8/10 (which was the first ime New First made an apperance at LGW)
Loyal_BA - 23/11/2010 16:23 GMT
G-BNLN has arrived at LHR today with NF fitted - I think this brings the total to 19
FCTraveller - 26/11/2010 15:32 GMT
Is there a target completion date I wonder?
travelworld - 26/11/2010 15:35 GMT
End 2011 I think.
FCTraveller - 26/11/2010 15:37 GMT
If the launch date was anything to go by, that may mean end of 2013
The upgrade to New First is carried out during scheduled maintenance and, as this is undertaken on a fixed cycle, any upgrade programme (once started) is likely to be stuck to fairly rigidly.
Alasdair - 27/11/2010 08:25 GMT
That is pathetic! Only 15 after all this time and media fanfare regarding it's rollout. If I do chose BA, then it will never be "chanced" in First... Club for me.
Loyal_BA - 27/11/2010 08:55 GMT
To be fair to BA, they had to wait 3 months from the first aircraft being fitted to get CAA approval - that period ended in May so they have done another 18 planes in 5 1/2 months which isn't too bad - about 3 per month.
I've travelled in both in recent months and its frustraing going back into old First once you've been in the new cabin - and on occasion, when on the 747, I've also booked into CW as I think upstairs cabin is great and at least you know exactly what you're getting!!
FCTraveller - 27/11/2010 10:37 GMT
It's not so much the time it's taking to refit the existing fleet, that's understandable. It's the fact that they waited three years to start the rollout in the first place. They had everything ready to go in 2007 but I guess when you've got no money ...
VintageKrug - 27/11/2010 11:35 GMT
Golly, everyone seems to place unreasonable expectations on an airline to somehow magic up a new cabin interior across a fleet overnight.
There are now 19 planes with new F, an increase of four in just the ten days since I posted this thread.
This isn't an episode of "I Dream of Jeannie", and there is no magic available to instantly transform cabin interiors.
BA has one of the world's largest fleet of longhaul widebody aircraft; just over 100 747 and 777s (I think).
Naturally, it just didn't make commercial sense to invest heavily in a cabin refit until there were clear signs of a recovery.
To be clear, there was no "fanfare" about a new cabin, just an announcement that one was coming which aired at the shareholder meeting in early 2009 (not 2007, as was erroneously stated). I posted the artist's impression on this site in mid 2009:
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3392/3603072000_19ddac12d4_o.jpg
I was at the presentation in 2009 when it was announced, and know that there no formal mention of the new cabin prior to that.
The new cabin is being installed towards the end of the recession, perfectly timed to take advantage of the modest upturn, as people begin to buy premium cabins and travel again.
Further, re-fitting a cabin is not a simple cosmetic thing; CAA approval is required (including three months' testing in the field) for the new seats, and this approval must be sought separately for both the 777 and 747.
Any changes to the design (and there were significant changes to the Club World seat post installation - you will notice some cabins feature more sturdy seats than others - the notorious "wobble" has now been eliminated - and there have been at least three iterations of the fold down stool) take a huge amount of effort to implement and get regulatory approval.
The current programme appears to be releasing just over one aircraft per week with the new First interior; I really don't think that is an unacceptable rate of change, and with 19 aircraft now featuring new First you have a little over 25% chance of getting new First right now if flying from LHR (given most of these new First planes fly exLHR, and not all the longhaul fleet feature First).
The rollout should be complete this time next year, and I for one am looking forward to the new cabin being available as widely as possible:
www.ba.com/first
FCTraveller - 27/11/2010 12:11 GMT
I agree with the refit schedule, an airline cannot just magically install a new product overnight. I'm satisfied that BA is now committed to getting this done in the shortest possible time.
But I disagree that NF was delayed simply because of the recession. This product was basically ready to go at the end of 2006 and we were not in a recession then. In any case, that doesn't seem to have stopped the likes of SQ, CX, QF, EK and a host of other competitors. The truth is that BA's commitment to First is not what is was 15 years ago and Willy decided to spend his money elsewhere and put NF on the backburner. Now I'm not saying this was a bad business decision in terms of how to run an airline. But from a passenger's point of view, I resent having to pay top dollar for a First Class seat that is 15 years old, simple as that. End result, I don't give half as much business to BA as I would want to and in the process, I've discovered some excellent if not superior products elsewhere. I'm not the only one who feels the same and as I've said in other forums, hopefully, we won't still be flying "New First" in 2025.
VintageKrug - 27/11/2010 12:28 GMT
The patent for the new seat was only filed on 19 May 2006.
There was absolutely no formal announcement made by BA about new First until early 2009, and then only to "closed user groups" such as shareholders/investors.
While those more "in the know" might have known this was coming, the wider public did not; as you may recall BA was making massive investment in new Club World rollout during 2006-7 and in 2008 moved into T5, again another huge investment, and in 2009-10 found itself in one of the most perilous trading environments in a generation, and yet still pressed ahead with this new cabin refit.
It should be noted that BA is also installing the very latest iteration of new Club World, with sturdier bracing, at the same time as new First, which might not be apparent as it's mostly not obvious that anything has changed.
I don't think First is being de-prioritised (indeed, in 2007, the "soft" product was improved with various changes to crockery etc.) and BA's Galleries and First/Concorde Room lounges remain some of the best available. First has been introduced to routes such as Las Vegas from next year, and deliveries of the new 777-300ER have First cabins, while other airlines (such as Qantas) are removing their First product.
It is impressive that 19 aircraft are currently embodied with new First, and that all will be complete this time next year..
robsmith100 - 27/11/2010 13:03 GMT
VK - do you know as to why BA opted against suite style first product as offered by SQ, EK and there alike?
Also BA have one of the biggest fleets of 747's and where other airlines are discontinuing this model for either 777 or A380s, BA are still keeping, maintaining and upgrading them. Do you know what the logic is behind this and what the long term vision is for these aircraft?
