I think the other thread takes ages to scroll down, so have started a new one. Would be good for BT to consider having longer threads divided into pages to make access on portable, and other, devices easier.

Seems a shame it has come to this.

Remember:

- Just because dates have been announced, does not mean a strike is certain to occur

- A formal commercial policy will be announced by BA in due course

- ALL exLCY services including CWLCY to JFK New York will operate as normal

- ALL Gatwick longhaul and most Gatwick shorthaul will operate as normal

- BA has enough crew to operate an almost normal 777 fleet from LHR

- BA has in place arrangement to wet lease aircraft and crews to keep services operating

- BA can rebook you onto other carriers if it is unable to get you to your destination, but check the copmmercial policy for details.

- You still get BA Miles and Tier Points on services involuntarily cancelled due to strike action

In short:

http://davidsudworth.files.wordpress.com/2010/01/keep-calm-and-carry-on.png

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Here is the BA response:

www.britishairways.com/travel/strike-ballot/public/en_gb?refevent=HOME_URGENT_CENTRE

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BA has now released a proposed schedule for the strike period:

http://www.britishairways.com/travel/strike-ballot/public/en_gb

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We should all support BA where we can...I am happy to consider changing my return flight from Sinagpore on the 22nd or finding an alternative route. Well done WW for withdrawing the offer too....lets see how many staff actually strike considering the staff travel benefits they will loose.

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Looks like the website is being updated fairly frequently.

I am flying with BA during the first proposed strike period and the following message appears above the details of the flight (In Manage My Booking)

"Your flights are currently planned to operate as normal. During the strike period you may experience a different level of onboard service or your flight may be cancelled.

So that you can better manage your travel plans you have the following options:

•You don’t have to do anything, you can keep your booking as it is.

•You may rebook these flights and other flights free of charge, subject to availability.

You can rebook your flights on ba.com.

•You may obtain a full refund by cancelling your entire booking on ba.com.

If these flights are cancelled, we will notify you by email or text message/SMS. Please ensure your contact details are up-to-date.

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Details of the onboard service in CW if your long haul flight does fly:

"On flights under 9 hours a meal will be served at your seat, with snacks available at the Club Kitchen in the galley throughout the flight.

On flights over 9 hours a meal will be served with a light snack available later in the flight.

Snacks and savoury items will also be available at the Club Kitchen in the galley throughout the flight.

Unfortunately, we will be unable to provide hot meals on board.

The usual range of hot and cold drinks will be available along with a bar service.

We are increasing the amount of catering available in both the departure and arrivals lounges and would encourage you to make use of them."

In WTP:

On flights under 9 hours a meal will be served with snacks and savoury items available from the galley at any time during the flight.

On flights over 9 hours a meal will be served with a snack available later in the flight.

Snacks and savoury items will also be available from the galley at any time during the flight.

Unfortunately, we will be unable to provide hot meals on board.

The usual range of hot and cold drinks will be available along with a bar service.

We are increasing the amount of catering available in both the departure and arrivals lounges and Gold and Silver Executive Club members are encouraged to make use of them.

Same deal for WT

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And, for the sake of completeness, for First passengers:

On flights under 9 hours customers will be served a meal will be at their seat, with snacks available at the Club Kitchen in the galley throughout the flight

On flights over 9 hours a meal will be served with a light snack available later in the flight.

Snacks and savoury items will also be available at the Club Kitchen in the galley throughout the flight

Unfortunately, we will be unable to provide hot meals on board.

The usual range of hot and cold drinks will be available along with a bar service.

We are increasing the amount of catering available in both the departure and arrivals lounges and would encourage customers to make use of them.

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I too am flying during the first proposed strike period, and I have the same message showing in the Manage My Booking section of ba.com as SiteAdministrator.

Interestingly (or not), the flight is slated for 744 operation exLHR.

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Well, I've chickened out. I was booked FRA>LHR>LIS on Friday 26th with BA. Have now re-booked on FRA>LIS with LH as I need to know that I shall be back in Portugal that day. My choice for the route was BA, probable disruption; LH, Captains strike hopefully over; TAP Captains 6 day strike due to start that day.

During the entire build up to this BA dispute I have received absolutely no communication from BA despite having a Portugal > Dusseldorf round trip next Monday / Wednesday on BA, and a London connection on my AMS>LGW>FAO flight yesterday.

To add insult to injury I sat next to a guy on the LGW>FAO sector yesterday who was on the same route in December and received 25,000 unsolicited bonus miles for worry for each of he, his wife and daughter, and my wife and I received nothing, nix, nada although we also travelled that route during the 12 day period. And I'm a Gold card.

Not impressed with WW and BA management whose strategy seems to rely on the blind support of BA regulars.

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This appears to be a more controlled approach to dealing with the strike - BA did not have any contingency plans during the gate gourmet strikes...at least they are being up front...but agree, there is no consistency in providing compensation....I'm sure if you write in, they will honor the same level of compensation...BA issued 100's of thousands of BA miles in compensation during the gate gourmet strikes...I'm sure there will be more this time around too.

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GTR_Skyline: I think FaroFlyer's seatmate was referring to the strike action originally planned for the Christmas 2009 period, immediately prior to which British Airways gifted ex-gratia BA miles dependent of class of travel to Executive Club members who 'kept the faith', even though no action ultimately took place.

The Gate Gourmet action rewarded customers whose flights had actually been disrupted.

It remains to be seen how the company will react during this episode, although it's clear that they're currently focussing their efforts on keeping their aircraft flying, rather than collapsing in a heap, throwing their arms in the air and showering members with even more miles.

That's both practical and commendable as a priority, but BA will need to go far beyond that if it is to rebuild the confidence and goodwill of its customer base. Though they have made strides, and though they know that other carriers to whom passengers may temporarily defect are facing similar levels of IR uncertainty, the airline is apparently some way behind the best, if not even the majority, in understanding the power, reach and leverage of modern media and social networking in exposing inconsistency and also common experience amongst savvy consumers.

Facebook, Twitter, web fora et al are not merely routes to free advertising and PR; they're mirrors reflecting truths that only sustainable businesses can confidently parade in front of in the long term.

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Slightly better effort than Gordon Brown's derisory performance on YouTube:

www.britishairways.com/travel/strike-ballot-ba-response/public/en_gb

I like the way they have used this approach to communicate with customers; shows some considerable planning is going in to managing the message to customers, and that planning to mitigate this strike is well advanced.

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As ever I first need to declare my (dis / non)interest of being a member of Unite. Much as I wish out of work re this carry on, I have no real option not to be. If it wasn't for so many of these ****** union mergers then civil aviation would have nothing to do with healthcare.

Any ideas what effects the first phase of the strike will have on flights for Tuesday 23rd? I'm booked on a domestic redeye that morning, always the first to get cancelled for weather, strikes, baggage, security, wrong kind of deicing fluid, etc etc.

Can't believe that Unite hasn't messed up somewhere on process...

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It is possible the strike may never happen.

Although BA is wet leasing crewed aircraft, Domestic flights are (rightly in my opinion) the most at risk as these are the flights for which it is easiest for passengers to make alternative arrangements (rail, road, coach or simply postponing by a day).

The London City flights will operate as normal, so in the first instance (if possible) try and book a flight arriving there; otherwise I would have a back up plan ready just in case.

Nut if you believe it's time to stop being held to ransom by Trades Union Trots, then I would urge you to support BA and keep your booking with them if possible.

Note that BA will publish a timetable of flights for the initial strike weekend shortly, so you should know in good time whether or not your flight will operate.

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Mr Vintage Krug

Why you address Mr Bannerman as 'Nut?'

What he said wrong?

This very rude and disrespectful thing to say.

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I'm used to being called much worse! To be fair to VK I'm sure it's a typo which should read "But"!! - the letters are adjacent and devices with predictive text can be tricky. On the iPhone, the Gaelic word "Slainte" meaning "Cheers" (literally "Health") gets converted to "Elaine" - with obvious suspicion amongst recipients of my message!!

I also have a shorthaul connection at LHR on Tuesday 23rd. My domestic leg is from Glasgow, does BA have crews & aircraft based there? - I recall the engineering facility being closed - or do the crew of the last flight from LHR the previous day overnight and return the next morning. Not sure if it makes any difference to whether the flight would operate or not anyway. Saving grace might be it doesn't run on each of the 3 strike days, so the crew and aircraft from Friday evening will still be there on Tuesday morning!

Come on ye BA!!

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The 'n' key and the 'b' key are adjacent to each other. Clearly, the word should read 'but' and not 'nut'.

The YouTube piece from Willie Walsh came across, to me at least, as an excellent communication; strong content delivered with conviction and authority.

However, I do worry that some of the power of his message is compromised by unnecessary cutaways to 'Blair-hands', and by using the backdrop of a calm, spacious, modern corporate office to discuss 'the most significant crisis that this company has ever seen'.

It would give detractors far less ammunition if any future communications were directed and produced with a slightly more customer-focussed eye. This piece looks a little too much like internal corporate comms, which though highly professional and well-scripted, may not present customers with an image that they associate with the realities of flying with BA in 2010, even when operations are running 'normally'.

Next time, a gate lounge at Glasgow, Edinburgh or Newcastle, between flights, might be a little more resonant. Just a thought, and only because I wish the company well.

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VK, normally I agree with your advice, but not this time.

For now you have the opportunity to re-book and take a refund for travel anywhere within the 11+ days of interruption. If you wait until you see the schedule, you will then only be able to cancel if you know your flights are affected. We all know that there is going to be a huge knock-on effect. Will 747s to HK etc really fly on Fridays 19 & 26? If so, will they return empty? Will 747s return the days after the strikes, or will they have to wait for new crew etc? I do fully agree that the main LHR cancellations will be domestic and short hauls like CDG & BRU.

If you are on a cheap fare, as I was, re-book if you can, then cancel before the revised schedules are announced.

I fully support the fact that BA should manage the airline, not a union living way back in the past, but I don't think that management have gone about it as well as they could.

If the dispute is really about a crew compliment of 15 reducing to 14, and CC are really only worried about service levels, then they should have been asked to work for 14/15 of pay and perks, to maintain the service levels, with a similar adjustment on all crew reduced flights.

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Well, I cannot predict the future, but if, and it's a big if, this industrial action ever materialises, BA has a wet leased fleet of smaller aircraft to operate shorthaul journeys from LHR.

Domestic is highest risk for cancellation, and I did book my upcoming Domestic on bmi for that very reason.

Things should get back to normal very quickly on 23rd, and if JimBannerman takes my advice and rebooks to LCY there is zero risk of disruption. Can you connect to your onward shorthaul destination from LCY?

Personally, I would probably try and delay a day just to be on the safe side.

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Hi everybody,

reading the previous comments, many people seem to think that crew are overpaid people who should not get paid extra for working weekend, nights, Xmas...

One of the main issue in the current dispute is the creation of the New Fleet, it will mean that current crew will have their most profitable routes taken away to this New Fleet and bit by bit, this fleet will grow when the current ones will start disappearing.

You will find some of the conditions regarding this new fleet and just have a think if working under such conditions, whether you will have on-board professional people who are committed to their jobs or just 20 years old taking the job for a couple of years to enjoy "their holidays". Will you think that BA will be the premium airline of choice when you are attended to by people who will be so overworked that they won't be bothered at all and leave within a couple of years as it is currenlty the case in Gatwick.

BA seem to have spent a lot of money into making a great PR campaign and making believe a lot of people (as seen on this forum) that it has not a hidden agenda.

How would you feel if your boss told you that he/ she will start recruiting people on a much lower basic and working conditions and knowing that your post will dissapear in the long term. Would you really agree to it?

Think about that!

Marky

What would New fleet look like?

• New Fleet will exist as a totally separate fleet to all existing fleets • New Fleet with have its own routes – both long and shorthaul • New Fleet will operate to reduced crew complements • Routes will be transferred across from existing LHR fleets as soon as BA can crew them • New Fleet will have its own negotiating body • Cabin Crew on New Fleet with have separate terms and conditions • Cabin Crew on New Fleet will work to basic Scheme • Cabin Crew on New Fleet will have no flying agreements • Cabin Crew on New Fleet will have minimum rest at base and downroute • Cabin Crew on New Fleet will have scheme minimum days off i.e. one day in seven off. Including time off down route, no double nights • Cabin Crew on New Fleet will have minimum statutory annual leave • Cabin Crew on New Fleet will stay in minimum spec Hotel, probably at the Airport • Cabin Crew on New Fleet will have NO seniority and no bidding for working positions • Cabin Crew on New Fleet will have their “performance” determined by their manger before this is paid • Cabin crew on new fleet will have no annual increases based on length of service increments, they will receive only a flat rate of pay • “Performance” will be determined on factors such as sickness, general attendance, customer satisfaction, punctuality, uniform standards etc. • Flying allowances will be based upon an hourly rate resembling LGW • LGW hourly rate is now taxed at 65% • There will be no other variable payments • Basic pay will equate to market rate plus 10% - This is expected to be around GBP11,000 for main crew and GBP20,000 for the single supervisor • There will only be one paid grade of supervisor on all aircraft both long and short haul • There will be rostered GROUND duties • There will be no redeployment agreement for any New Fleet crew • All future recruitment will be in to New Fleet ONLY • There will be NO TRANSFER RIGHTS for existing Cabin Crew at LHR or LGW in to New Fleet • Gatwick Cabin Crew may no longer transfer in to existing LHR Fleets • New Fleet contracts will contain the bare minimum of employment protections • New Fleet employee policies will be based upon a minimum statutory code of practice (including discipline, grievance, sickness, maternity and special leave) • Staff Travel policy for New Fleet crew is yet to be determined (Remember: No Seniority)

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lets be fair here. Cabin Crew is not a highly skilled job, highly trained.. yes, but not high skill. It should be crewed by people working there for 3-4 years then moving on. They have there fun travelling the world, and then move on before they burn out and become the 20+ year Dragons that we have all seen out there.

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If the situation you describe above, marky, is that bad, and if better terms and conditions and pay were available elsewhere, then from a cabin crew member's perspective the right thing to do would be to look for a job elsewhere.

Alas, in BA crew's case, there are no better packages for the same work on offer for the majority of staff, and especially the most senior ones who have the most to lose from these new T&Cs/losing their "most profitable" routes.

Sadly it is in many cases these senior BA cabin crew who are asking those lower in the ranks to strike effectively on their behalf and possibly lose staff travel, to preserve their own seniority based benefits.

Existing staff are simply being asked to work in a different way, not to take a pay cut (it is BASSA/Unite which is suggesting a cabin crew pay cut, not BA Management, who rejected this suggestion).

New staff will work under new fleet T&Cs; better I think you will agree than closing down the whole shorthaul operation to be restarted by FlyBe or Easyjet, without TUPE or other protections, which is what will certainly happen if these changes are not made.

And it's absolutely right that newly hired people are paid the current going market rate for the work they do. I expect them to be better remunerated and have marginally better working conditions than those of a low cost carrier.

BUT frankly, as a customer, and from the perspective of corporate travel policies, that is irrelevant.

Travelling has become commoditised and most peoples' and companies' primary concern, now more than ever, is keeping costs low.

If that means lower pay, then unfortunately, that is the way the market will determine salaries.

The oil price also plays a part and also this pressure on costs is caused by the excessive APD taxes which Gordon Brown has introduced and imposed on the flying public, which are out of all proportion to any environmental impact, and specifically penalise premium business class travellers.

A decent seat which converts into a bed and more pleasant cabin environment, coupled with proper IFE, means the individual influence of crewmembers, while still important, is not as important as it was twenty/thirty years ago when many of these T&Cs were first established in the days of more lavish food service, technical delays, and little else to pass the time other than visiting the bar and eating.

I have been perfectly happy with Easyjet crewmembers on my three flights with that airline; no noticeable diminution in service vs. shorthaul BA crews IMHO, so I just don't buy the argument that lower pay = dreadful service.

BA's Gatwick crews who you believe to be "underpaid and overworked" are some of the best in my experience.

If BA employees have a gripe about creating a new low pay structure, they should ask their Union reps to lobby Unite for the Government to change its APD policy (another huge rise is planned for November 2010) and give some of that money back to those who work for BA.

But I doubt Unite will be highlighting that issue with the current government, seeing as Jack Dromey ( Dep Sec. Transport and Gen. Workers Union) is married to Harriet Harman, Dep Labour Leader.

The odious Charlie Whelan is Unite's Political Secretary, and also Prime Minister Gordon Brown's right hand man.

Thankfully, Lord Adonis has his head screwed on correctly and has called out the Emperor's New Clothes which BASSA/Unite are pushing.

BA crewmembers are some of the best in the business, and work very hard.

But they are not irreplaceable.

Crew have been duped into a false sense of entitlement by BASSA/Unite which, largely in the interests of its most senior and long serving cabin crew members, is endangering the livelihoods, salaries and non-contractual travel perks of more junior staff.

As anyone who has had friends or colleagues made redundant in the past year knows, Unite's intransigent approach is entirely out of step with current economic reality.

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Hi VintageKrug,

As my flatmate works for BA (very junior crew), I receive info from the other side. From what I understand Unite is as bad too. However, I would be quite annoyed too if I signed a contract and found out that my work would gradually decrease until there are no flights for me and would not have any choice but leave or move to a new fleet with totally different conditions.

The problem is you have on one hand a company and CEO who does not give a damn about its employees (and this can be applied to lots of blue chip Co) and is concerned about making shareholders happy as well as receiving a good bonus, and on the other hand employees who are fighting to make a living. And once again you will see the typical where the CEO is earning a fortune and the employees peanuts (perhaps they should have a Look at the John Lewis Partn for some advice).

Being cabin crew is a lifestyle choice and why would you have to leave if you enjoy your work.

At the end of the end, everybody is looking after their own interest: company making money, crew keeping salary and conditions, pilots after their pensions (hence the reason they want the company to get back profit soon)...

I don't understand either why London Underground, Royal Mail or Civil servants staff fro example do not get the same exposure and criticism when they go on strike as BA crew (perhaps their companies don't spend as much money in PR campaign).

At the end of the day, we are all very selfish and look after own little interests, and wathever pressure BA staff get from oustide, good on them for fighting for their rights and not letting their employers going back to 1950s working conditions.

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A balanced assessment, marky.

However the issue is more stark than you set out. Your comment about the private sector is very apposite.

If BA does not make these changes, it will cease being profitable, and management will keep on being distracted from the matter in hand by managing a Union, rather than managing an airline.

Without a structurally profitable airline, brought about by efficiencies as well as cost cutting, there will be no employer against which BA Cabin Crew can negotiate, as their contracts will be voided, pension entitlement lost and UK plc a poorer place.

Public sector employees simply don't have these commercial realities against which to contend.

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Marky many of the things that are happening at BA have happened in many industries in the UK over many years, even back in the 80's new staff were taken on in organisations who would never acheive the T&C's of senior staff.

VK is right when he says LGW staff are some of the best. What would your flat mate prefer, working for BA or Easyjet or Ryanair?

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VK:

Excellent comments, which the national newspapers would do well to publish - along with Gordon Brown's words that the proposed strike is 'unjustified" and "deplorable".

Let's hope that the Prime Minister and Lord Adonis continue to publicly stand behind BA and WW. I wonder if Harriet Harman would like to echo the PM's words?

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For those interested, the flight details for the first 3 days of action have been uploaded & updated into the BA system.

I can only imagine plane spotters are going to have a field day at T5 this weekend.

Edit: BA have a full statement at http://bapress.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/bapress.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_sid=QCdPEWWj&p_faqid=7706

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A quick survey at least of the HKG flights shows these as cancelled so VK's assessment that 777's only will fly is correct.

Minimum crew on a 747 is 12 to meet CAA regs.

As a matter of interest what is the normal and CAA numbers for a 777 ?

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I think it's mix-and-match. An example is SFO, which has one of its two 747s cancelled, but the other is operational; Cairo (also 747 ops) is cancelled.

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Some 747s will operate.

I had to re-book two shorthaul flights, all onto some third world airline. The Trots at Unite have a lot to answer for!!

Suggest get re-booking if you haven't already made alternative plans.

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In typical fashion both sides continue to punt that their door is open for talks / negotiation to each other to wake up / pick their toys back up and carry on discussions.

BT's news report; Willie Walsh - “We remain absolutely determined to search for a sensible settlement and our door remains open to Unite, day or night.

Sky News online earlier today; "Unite is ready to negotiate"

It's like both boxers wanting to get into the ring but each saying the other has ring the bell to start the first round.

The Latin meaning of PR would seem more appropriate than the English one...

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I would personally disagree with the comments made about the BA crews which operate out of Gatwick.

For me, its like flying with a different airline sometimes. I recently flew LHR-JFK in F from LHR and then LHR-BGI in F from LGW. The flights were within days of each other so both experiences very fresh in my memory. There were a number of inconsistencies with the level of onboard service provided and also a huge different in the levels of experience in the cabin crew.

I've also experienced this in J from both LHR and LGW

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In the hope that this may be of use to those who have TA-booked tickets, and for whom ba.com now advises that your flight has been cancelled: please contact your travel agent in the first instance.

This applies especially to those passengers whose booking cannot, for whatever reason, be amended online at ba.com.

As availability on alternative flights (BA-operated or otherwise) will probably disappear relatively swiftly, you may be able to expedite matters by providing alternative routings to your TA, perhaps checking availability while you are (inevitably) on hold. Though it would be nice to think that they wouldn't need it, experience suggests that some TA telephone agents can go a bit snowblind when faced with pressured circumstances such as these.

Patience and good humour can pay dividends; I've just managed to change a TA booking and the agent was prompted to comment, at the end of the 45 minute call, that I was by far the most patient and pleasant customer that he'd dealt with all evening, which I thought was rather nice. I wished him good luck for the rest of his shift!

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It is many years since I travelled long haul in J from LGW so I could not compare against recent J trips from LHR.

However, as far as Club Europe and Domestic is concerned in the main the LGW crews are some of the best, with the "welcome back on board" greeting given more so from LGW crews than LHR in my experience.

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Does anyone know what BA's policy is going to be if the strike is cancelled? Will flights that were cancelled be re-instated?

I know that in the past flights have either remained cancelled, have been reinstated or have just gone ahead as 'ferry flights' to reposition the aircraft with flight and cabin crew but no pax.

My Sunday flight to Lusaka is one of those to be cancelled! lucky me!

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I agree, consistency with the F and J products between LGW and LHR does need to be improved.

It doesn't mean that LHR crews are better than LGW ones though - or visa versa - and it certainly doesn't mean that the 'old guard' cabin crew who think they are better than some of their colleagues actually are. It's purely a training issue.

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Breaking News British Airways and Unite union in last-ditch strike talksBA chief executive and joint general secretary of Unite in talks to avert cabin crew walkout on Saturday

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Press Association:

http://www.pressassociation.com/component/pafeeds/2010/03/18/ba_boss_in_last_minute_strike_talks?camefrom=home

BBC:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/8574383.stm

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Anyone traveling LHR - HKG - LHR has a reasonable chance of flying if the strike happens as CX has wet leased ( Cathay crew upfront and in the cabin) at least one 744 to BA commencing this weekend for 14 days. Now you can all experience the best first class on the route and not feel bad about deserting your beloved BA !

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Other oneworld carriers are also leasing aircraft to BA.

More staff than originally anticipated have decided to come in to work:

Flights reinstated between 20 and 22 March 2010 Since we published our flying schedule for 20, 21 and 22 March the number of cabin crew offering to work as normal has increased significantly – and is expected to grow further.

We are also pleased that the number of other airlines offering their help for the strike period through charters or provision of spare seats has increased from 50 on Monday to more than 60.

These developments have enabled us to reinstate some previously cancelled flights.

What has been reinstated?

We have been able to reinstate a number of flights to the following destinations:

Paris, Nice, Toulouse and Marseille Glasgow, Manchester, Edinburgh and Aberdeen Rome, Milan, Genoa, Pisa and Bologna Amsterdam Brussels Dusseldorf -------------------------

Seems talks went on until midnight. WW said to be a "very tough negotiator" by BBC just now.

Tony Woodley of Unite now involved....Union worried this will cost the Labour party votes at the next election. Brown urged to "make a call" to ensure the strike is called off...

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The cabin crew strike is showing distinct signs of crumbling with almost all reliable sources reporting that over 50% of crew roistered for work yesterday reported for duty making the BASSA claim of 80% strike participation look like another distinctly desperate bid con their members

According to Sunday Times 1157 of 1700 roistered LHR cabin crew reported for work yesterday. That's 68% at LHR and at LGW it was 97% !

In cabin crew forums crew are reporting that 95% of their BASSA reps cannot be contacted by members but are busy spreading misinformation to the media. Pilots are confirming reports that after 1700 hrs yesterday ALL BA long haul flights ex LHR took off as scheduled although 5 operated empty in order to pick up paxs at destination ports

Both BBC and Sky new have been carrying false reports of BA planes 'parked up' with 20 BA aircraft at Cardiff airport and a dozen more at Shannon. This is not the case with only 2 aircraft parked (NLB and NLF) at Cardiff. (there are three 777s and two 747 undergoing scheduled maintenance in Cardiff ) and 2 'parked up' at Shannon. Is it too much to expect that with all its resourses the BBC check before picking up false BASSA propaganda.

I always had faith (or was it just hope) in the innate good sense of the majority of experienced BA cabin crew and one just hopes that now working crew are in the majority they will have the confidence to with- stand the lies and blatant bullying tactics of their BASSA reps.

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Well said.

I think BA is winning the PR war here, with WW's excellent youtube video style daily update. Another one (now three online) can be seen here:

https://www.britishairways.com/travel/strike-ballot-ba-response/public/en_gb

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Excellent updates oldchinahand and VK; many thanks.

Do all striking cabin crew now have their travel privileges revoked (as earlier reported)?

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I am told that yes they will have lost their travel privileges (if they continue to strike) but Willie Welsh and Bill Francis will offer all non striking cabin crew the original contract that was offered to BASSA early March. Yesterday according to Flightstats 197 BA flights operated and 114 were cancelled... better today perhaps

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British AIrways' CEO demonstrates a dapper line in Lacoste weekend leisurewear, and puts paid to the rumours about BA aircraft being stored at Shannon which was complete fabrication on the part of Unite:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=z329b9yEfGY

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Clarkson has rather elegantly waded into the fray:

"No. If the cabin crew win, the airline will go under and everyone will be out of a job. So, if they lose, they lose, and if they win, they still lose. Only, if they win, we all lose, because a nation with no national airline is like a nation with no national anthem. Even Ethiopia has one.

"I like Virgin. And I flew Singapore Airlines recently, which was out of this world. But there is nothing quite so joyous as leaving the hustle and bustle of a superheated Third World hellhole and being greeted on the big BA jumbo by a homosexual with a cold flannel and a refreshing glass of champagne. Take that away from us and we may as well all be Belgian."

FULL TEXT here:

www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/jeremy_clarkson/article7069620.ece

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instead of quoting that 'iconic British politian' Jeremy Clarkson' love of gay Cabin crew, or playing 'I spy where are the aeroplanes parked" (well they have to be parked somewhere), why doest this woderful publication Business Traveller take a lesson in marketing from Sky News (arranging the 3 leader deabate going into the election) add try to bring the children together and promote dialogue in a far more proactive and mature way between BA and Unite. As Sky news have just reported (7am Monday morning) there has been no breakthrough in the 3rd day of this stupid dispute, something has to occur otherwise BA may just as well put the aeroplanes up for sale.

Some of you are putting a very good case for BA whilst others are supporting the Unions. Personally, I support a resolution and the basic priciple of a fiding a solution (and I am sure VK will agree) is that YOU HAVE TO TALK TOGETHER.

So Busiess Traveller, how about it, give your backing to finding a solution. Use your power within the travel indsustry as a leader, a leading news publication, and work towards bringing the children to the table. The longer this strike goes on, the less chance BA has for an economic survival. Without seat and cargo revenue, BA cant pay costs which include salaries, which in turn meants they cant provide a service which ultimately means no product which results in passengers like me, flying other airlies. Its very simple, if BA ad Unite continue to play games and the press contiue to fuel these games, well, there will be a glut of Boeing and Airbus aircraft on the second hand market!

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Its feels from reading all of the press reports that this squabble has/has become personal between Tom Woodley/Brendan Barber and WW.

Perhaps WW should have put in more effort up front instead of the alleged walking out of negotiations, sitting playing with his blackberry (I've had that from a firsthand source) and sending junior people in to do his job who were not empowered to negotiate merely dictate his wishes.

As the MD of a business, no business can continue to operate as a loss - I can appreciate that and difficult decision are never easy to make,

I also understand that unhappy employees are not going to live BA's brand and provide the level of service in the air that F & J passengers expect.

Whilst BA may not have achieved the levels of savings they feel they need to be profitable, a happy workforce will carry a number of intangible benefits such as customer loyalty all of which impact the bottom line.

There is more to running an business than pure numbers - brand, reputation. loyalty, service and perception can't be accurately valued and in the current situation all or being damaged in my opinion.

WW needs to actually come to the table and be prepared to listen not dictate. The cabin crew need to accept change will happen whether they like it or not.

Someone effective needs to mediate before both WW and the unions drive the business into the ground because they are so entrenched in their own positions.

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I have to say that I've not seen anything that even remotely suggests that the dispute is in any way personally-focussed on either Tony Woodley or Willie Walsh. They may be the faces that the two sides present to the media, but there's no evidence whatsoever that they're the sole combatants.

BA Chairman Martin Broughton has gone on record again today to publicly re-affirm that Willie has his and the main board's unequivocal support. Mr Woodley has only really come to the fore in the media quite recently; until Christmas it was Len McCluskey who was at the sharp end.

Meanwhile Woodley's counterpart, joint general secretary Derek Simpson, admitted in a TV interview that the 12-day walkout planned for Christmas 2009 was "probably over the top" - which additionally illustrates just how many people on the union side are involved, or at least commenting and influencing.

It would be nice to think that some noughty, Google-esque corporate cuddling could resolve the current impasse; the simple fact is that - as anyone with an understanding of highly-unionised companies, particularly former public-sector ones will know - those fluffy concepts are utterly, completely and wholly irrelevant.

Clarkson was nearly on-the-money with his assertion that "If the cabin crew win, the airline will go under and everyone will be out of a job. So, if they lose, they lose, and if they win, they still lose. Only, if they win, we all lose..."

What he misses is that, uniquely, the union leaders have absolutely nothing whatsoever to lose; nothing. They can preside over the failure of the company and the redundancy of their entire membership, and yet they will keep their own jobs. And, in the meantime, they can further their own union and/or political ambitions.

Casual observers can poke fun at the farcical press breifings and website posts that Unite and BASSA continue to issue; looking for all the world as if someone at the union has found a copy of 'Comical Ali's Guide to PR & Communications'.

More serious commentators will understand that there is a fundamental disconnect between the best and collective interests of British Airways' cabin crew members and the far more selfish and personal goals of their union leadership.

That's the real inhibitor to a negotiated resolution and, as it stands, as long as the company maintains its current high-standing amongst its customers, shareholders and vast majority of employees, and the union leadership apparently don't give a damn as they strap on their own hang-gliders and lead their hapless, wingless members to the cliff-edge, then there is little incentive for anyone to go for a latte and discuss vegetarian cookery.

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Glad to see BA staff who striked will have their travel perks revoked.......

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A letter to the Guardian: It is nice to see that there are people with some brains and are not fooled by BA PR's machine.

23 March 2010

Dear Editor,

As academics in the field of employment relations our expertise includes the analysis of the causes, process and outcomes of industrial disputes and particularly the dynamics of strike action. Given the near certainty of further strikes (Follow up strike will go ahead says union, March 22nd), it is clear to us that the actions of the Chief Executive of British Airways, notwithstanding his protestations to the contrary, are explicable only by the desire to break the union which represents the cabin crew. What other possible interpretation can there be for Willie Walsh rejecting Unite’s acceptance of BA’s previous offer or indeed of his marshalling of resources, including those of bitter industry rival Ryanair, to undermine the action of his staff? Walsh and now Prime Minister Brown have made the error of underestimating the deep seated and justifiable anger of a loyal and dedicated workforce, whose continued trust and goodwill is a vital ingredient of customer care.

Overwhelming majorities in two strike ballots in the face of tabloid opprobrium testify to employees’ understanding that a victory for Walsh’s macho management strategy would precipitate a race to the bottom in terms of working conditions and job quality. In the process, this would damage beyond repair the high standards of customer service for which BA cabin crew are renowned. The wider significance of a triumph of unilateral management prerogative would be a widening of the representation gap in UK employment relations, and a further erosion of worker rights and of that most precious of commodities - democracy. For all these reasons, BA’s cabin crew and their union, Unite, deserve our support rather than knee-jerk vilification.

Professor Philip Taylor, University of Strathclyde

Professor Sarah Ashwin, London School of Economics

Professor Chris Baldry, University of Stirling

Professor Robert Carter, De Montfort University

Professor Linda Clarke, University of Westminster

Professor Christine Cooper, University of Strathclyde

Professor Andrew Danford, University of West of England

Professor Ralph Darlington, University of Salford

Professor Tony Elger, University of Warwick

Professor Patricia Findlay, University of Strathclyde

Professor Irena Grugulis, University of Bradford

Professor Geraldine Healy, Queen Mary University of London

Professor Ed Heery, Cardiff University

Professor Debra Howcroft, University of Manchester

Professor Jeff Hyman, University of Aberdeen

Professor Richard Hyman, London School of Economics

Professor Steve Jeffreys, London Metropolitan University

Professor John Kelly, Birkbeck College London

Professor Miguel Martinez Lucio, University of Manchester

Professor Sonia McKay, London Metropolitan University

Professor Doug Miller, University of Northumbria

Professor Dennis Nickson, University of Strathclyde

Professor Anna Pollert, University of the West of England

Professor Valeria Pulignano, Universities of Leuven and Warwick

Professor Paul Stewart, University of Strathclyde

Professor Mark Stuart, University of Leeds

Professor Paul Thompson, University of Strathclyde

Professor Martin Upchurch, Middlesex University

Professor Chris Warhurst, University of Strathclyde

Professor Zander Wedderburn, Heriot-Watt University

Dr. Maurizio Atzeni, Loughborough University

Dr. David Beale, University of Manchester

Cecilie Bingham, University of Westminster

Paul Brook, Manchester Metropolitan University

Dr. Peter Butler, De Montfort University

Dr. Iona Byford, Portsmouth University

Dr. Ian Clark, University of Birmingham

Nick Clarke, London Metropolitan University

Dr. Rachel Cohen, University of Warwick

Dr. Hazel Conley, Queen Mary University of London

Dr. Heather Connolly, University of Manchester

Nick Creaby-Attwood, Northumbria University

Dr. Alf Crossman, University of Surrey

Dr. Andrew Cumbers, University of Glasgow

Dr. Ian Cunningham, University of Strathclyde

Dr. Steve Davies, Cardiff University

Dr. Tricia Dawson, University of Westminster

Demet Dimler, School of African and Oriental Studies

Janine Duvier, London School of Economics

Dr. Peter Dwyer, Ruskin College Oxford

Dr. Vaughan Ellis, Edinburgh Napier University

Dr. Debbie Foster, Cardiff University

Dr. Steve French, Keele University

Jo Grady, University of Leicester

Dr. Ian Greenwood, University of Leeds

Dr. Anita Hammer, De Montfort University

Dr. Geraint Harvey, Swansea University

Dr. Jane Holgate, London Metropolitan University

Eleanor Kirk, University of Strathclyde

Dr. Lefteis Kretsos, University of Coventry

Dr Alex Law, University of Abertay

Dr. Dave Lyddon, Keele University

Dr. Patricia McCafferty, University of Strathclyde

Erin van der Maase, Carnegie Trust

Dr. Matteo Mandarini, Queen Mary University of London

Jim Main, University of Strathclyde

Dr. Abigail Marks, Heriot-Watt University

Douglas Martin, University of Strathclyde

Dr. Gerry Mooney, The Open University

Dr. Sian Moore, London Metropolitan University

Dave Napier, London Metropolitan University

Dr. Kirsty Newsome, University of Strathclyde

Dr. Jane Parker, Auckland University of Technology

Dr. Andrew Perchard, University of Strathclyde

Dr. Elke Pioch, Manchester Metropolitan University

Michael Pye, University of Hertfordshire

Dr. Helen Richardson, University of Salford

Dr. Michael Richardson, University of the West of England

Dr. Ian Roper, Middlesex University

Alan Ryan, De Montfort University

Dr. Devi Sacchetto, University of Padua

Dr. Peter Scott, University of Portsmouth

Dr. Melanie Simms, University of Warwick

Bob Simpson, London School of Economics

Bob Smale, University of Brighton

Dr. Andrew Smith, University of East London

Dr. Ian Towers, Euro-Business-College, Berlin

Dr. Alan Tuckman, Nottingham Trent University

Charles Umney, University of Leeds

Dr. Matt Vidal, Kings College London

Dr. Steve Vincent, University of Leeds

Dr. Roger Welch, Portsmouth University

Dr. Glynne Williams, University of Leicester

Dr. Stephen Williams, Portsmouth University

David Wray, University of Northumbria

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Wow - what a great list of academics...fundamental point for the recovery of the UK markets and industry performance is for Willie Walsh to continue in the current manner he is....we are all working hard in our existing jobs to simply "pay the bills" and support our respective families - 1980's type tactics by Unions such as UNITE and RMT need to be left in that decade....we are in troubled times and we all need to be living in the 2010s and not 1980s.

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perhaps the academics would be best served going on a diplomacy course. What else would you expect from Guardian readers. Thank G-d these guys are just commenting and not running industry. Still there is no public words of "we are talking". For goodness sake, stop the games and find a solution. Here i am at Heathrow in an empty BA lounge - whilst having to fly to the US on an american airline.

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Regardless of the money BA is losing, regardless of the thousands of inconvenienced passengers I find it incredible that there appears to be NO negotiating going on.

Gordon Brown waded into the situation last week but regardless of his budget duites there has been no more comment.

To every dispute there is an outcome eventually but surely the talking has to start !

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"its good to talk" - by Bob Hoskins - was it the BT advert in 1978????

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“Academic chairs are many, but wise and noble teachers are few"

Albert Einstein, 1879-1955.

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“You must be the change you want to see in the world.” -Mahatma Gandhi

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Travellator - I couldn't agree more. Any negotiation requires both side to talk AND LISTEN. From what I know, WW seems to be doing lots of talking and no listening at all.

ContinentalClub - I am far from a casual observer. If you've seen nothing in the press to show the stand off between WW and UNITE/BASSA then I think you need to just open up a paper or read the internet or talk to anyone who is remotely involved. Whilst I appreciate that change needs to happen and a business can't run at a loss, I am disgusted at the way in which BA are choosing to handle this - there are many ways to solve the same problem and as far as I am concerned, BA have doing more harm than good with their current approach.

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While, at a quick glance, it might appear that WW is being deliberately awkward in not now putting the offer back on the table, it is not actually so. He did make it very clear, many weeks ago, that if action started and BA incurred costs, then any offer must be reduced to recover any additional costs.

BA have now spent upwards of £20 million on contingency plans and alternative flights so, if he did now restore the offer, then Unite would be saying how crazy WW is as he could have settled earlier and not spent the money. Unfortunately Unite only decided to accept the offer after it had been withdrawn, with due notice given of the consequences.

Like it or not, Unite are going to lose face on this as their next "condition" will be that travel perks are restored to the strikers. If BA did give these back it would send a clear message that Unite are in charge. I guess that the travel perks saved are probably significantly more than £10 million each year.

BA, and WW, are past the point of no return. Unfortunately Unite may also be.

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Looks like Unite will resume their plans tomorrow (Tuesday), with another notice to strike; they must give seven days' warning, so that would suggest a mid-April walkout.

I am certain BA will have learned lessons from the successful strike-busting plans put in place last time round, and should better the 80% of LHR passengers flown record, with no service interruptions at all from LCY and minimal impact at LGW.

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Seem Unite is bypassing BASSA, and negotiating directly with BA.

Hence no announcement on Tuesday.

Talks resume between Unite and British Airways (from Unite website):

7th April 2010

Talks between Unite the union and British Airways aimed at resolving the cabin crew dispute resumed over the Easter weekend and are continuing, the union said today (Wednesday).

Joint general secretary Tony Woodley said: “It is welcome that talks have resumed and I am pleased that some serious progress has been made over the issues which have divided us.

“However, there is more work to be done, and further discussions will take place with the company over the next few days. I reported to representatives of our cabin crew today and explained that it would be unnecessary to set further strike dates while these talks are continuing and making progress.”

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Latest seems to be that BA will perform its own poll on whether cabin crew prefer to accept the latest offer very shortly.

As up to 40% of the cabin crew do not (or no longer, having rersigned recently in disgust) belong to their Union, a simple poll run by BASSA of union members is not really an effective bellweather of sentiment within the crew community.

Would imagine nothing until after the General Election, however.

Should there be a further strike, I would call it for the third week in May or the second week in June (avoiding the actual Bank Holiday weekend, but impacting those travelling around those dates nonethless).

But there is not much to be gained by striking now, and many cabin crew have already suffered significant loss of earnings from the Volcanic grounding, so they may be little appetite to keep up refusing to accept the offer on the table.

A Hung Parliament with Gordon teetering on the brink of an abyss, could change all that, however.

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