Skywards is changing from JAN 2010, they wrote 10keys - changes, I understand out from the letter F and C is gaining more moles, but still behind LH program, and Y is getting harder to gain miles Im guessing. But what Im really worry is that is harder and more expensive to get a Free Ticket. Anyone have any clue and guesses about the changing ?

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I'm a Gold card member and im trying to understand how this will impact me. The 10 key changes is not that clear and the website is poorly designed. The cynic in me says that economy class passengers will suffer and cheap tickets will become harder to procure and will cost more.

With a declining service proposition this is not the right time to start this venture.

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When will the airlines ever learn!

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Airpocket the answer is they always follow others fellow path! They think that is just in the beginning people get upset, then it will past and in the long run we will accept the changes. I do have Gold with EK and Plat with Flying Blue, but with the new changes in their program I will look for other option. The worst changes is the Flying Blue less earnings miles and more miles for spending. I just wish someway us consumers can join force together.

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People should consider Qatar Airways or Etihad Airways when travelling. EK service is starting to go one way and its not the right way.

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Spoke to both the reservations and Skywards representatives today as I tried a 'dummy' booking for February 2010 on the Emirates website, however the reservations website is not yet designed for the new changes. As a result you cannot work out the impact of booking a ticket in any class to see what options it will provide for the pax. Neither the reservations agents or Skywards could clarify exactly how a ticket would be displayed or the impact of the options to a Pax !

A classic case of the management releasing a new scheme without briefing the employees adequately or having the systems ready to handle the changes!

I foresee the same nonsense that we have with the BA Executive Club at present with the lack of clarity and transparency in the schemes.

I envisage and expect the worst!

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One thing I always like about EK is that what ever ticket I buy I will always get the full mileage, I hope this would not change. Im not so lucky that my company will let me fly F or C every time. I think one of the main reason I have put up with the 3x4x3 on the 777 config with EK, is Skywards Y miles setting.

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I read the release with interest. The way I interpret it, F&C flights will receive a greater percentage of miles flown. Economy will be split into Flexible (higher price) and Economy (Discount). Reading between the lines, it seems as if basic Economy will still attract one Skywards mile for each mile flown, while Flexible will receive a small premium. Looks like they will also have more frequent "specials" during which time extra Skywards miles can be earned. I reckon we should wait for the finer detail before criticisising too heavily. My only concern is that they are starting to complicate what is currently a very simple and easy to understand system.

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I agree we should not criticise the scheme as we don't know exactly how it affects us. However at the crux of the matter is the lack of briefing that EK/Skywards employees have received about the scheme to answer questions. EK should have established either a 'dummy' website for reservations to illustrate how a booking would look to the customer/pax when planning a flight in 2010. From what I understand you will not be able to see this until 1st January 2010 when the new reservations web page will be displayed. Failing this there should be some illustrations of bookings and the sort of fares to be offered including the class of travel that attract the skywards bonus miles/points, e.g. in Economy, designated class of tickets such as L,M,N, O, etc. Whilst the value of redemption tickets on key routes is 50% for one way sectors, apparently you cannot undertake to book one of these one way sectors until 1st January, together with other fares/redemptions under the new scheme Whilst we applaud the innovation and dynamism of EK to provide Skyward members with improved service, the systems should be in place to accept the bookings (up to one year in advance) or at least have examples of how the scheme will work. Customer/Pax facing staff handling booking enquiries also need to be briefed so that they can respond with confidence and accuracy to enquiries. At this point this seems to be lacking!

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Agreed. Perhaps they're trying to pique our interest in the new scheme by teasing? This would explain the lack of detail so far. This would also explain why they're doing it almost three months in advance of the launch date. But it does appear to be a little ham-fisted.

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Hi Guys!

I hope it will change even better, but lately all the others program is getting worse and harder with their changes. Thats why Im not getting high expectations. Maybe Skywards leak the changes so far ahead to get some respons to see travellers reaction. Not like BA who burse out the seat charge, and got only negative feedback.

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Hello (Tom Otley, here - editor)

I've been following this, and thought it would make a good news story if we can get a comment or interview from Skywards. To that end I am hoping to interview someone from Skywards early next week.

If there are any questions you would like to address to Skywards, please post them on this thread and we'll see whether we can get some answers.

Many thanks

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I am not sure if others have picked up on this. It seems miles will not be awarded until all the flights within one leg have been completed. I am not sure if people use EK tickets in the same way as BA tickets , i.e. start from a European - fly to the US and then back to LHR, leaving the last portion unused. If so then you could end up getting nothing on the return leg.

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I think that's true, but then it is something that all airlines try and discourage - "throwaway ticketing." If someone does it, then they will not be credited the miles for the whole of a return part of a trip, for instance.

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In my opinion you should get miles for the flight you have made, plans do change and sometimes its better not to use last segment. But one thing you must do is alert the airline so they dont wait for you. I do have questions that SiteAdm. may forward to Skywards : Do they have any plans to change the Look at the Skywards cards, and introduce new levels?

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I will certainly try and find out. I believe the answer to the first question is yes....

"2010 also marks Skywards tenth anniversary. To celebrate, we will unveil an exciting, contemporary new look. Most notably, you can look forward to receiving a distinctive new membership card that truly reflects your status as a valued Skywards member. ".

and the second is no, for the moment...

"Will Skywards be having a 4th tier, above Gold? Isn't this the perfect time to introduce one?

Emirates is continually looking for additional ways to provide recognition and exemplary service to our very top customers. For now, the Gold tier remains our most elite tier with benefits and privileges deserving of our best customers.

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The most basic question. Will an existing Economy-type ticket-i.e one that can be discounted and not the flexible one that will be introduced in 2010-still attract one full Skywards Mile for each mile flown?

And if so, presumably the flexible economy ticket will then have a premium Skywards mileage award?

Alternatively, is Skywards only going to award full miles for a flexible Economy ticket and downgrade the mileage allowed on a discounted ticket?

It's not clear from the press release as it only mentions the higher awards for F & C travel.

The net effect of the latter move would be to significantly reduce the ability of discounted Economy travellers to attain Silver or Gold tiers, which would be very much in line with BA's policy.

Perhaps they're still debating the issue?

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I found this info on the Skywards 10K changes :

# How many Miles will I earn on 'Skywards Flex' and 'Skywards Saver' fares? # You will earn 100% of base Miles when you purchase 'Skyward Flex' fares. You will earn 50% of base Miles when you purchase 'Skywards Saver' fares.

Increased class of travel bonuses will be earned separately, as will any Gold/Silver bonuses. New Miles Accelerator bonuses will also be earned separately. (see relevant sections below).

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Business Traveller replies:

We've now posted an exclusive interview with Brian LaBelle, senior vice-president of the Skywards scheme, regarding the forthcoming changes. This can be read at:

http://www.businesstraveller.com/news/emirates-skywards

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Thanks SiteAdm for making the story.

Is just confirmed Skywards is getting harder, and its not a everyone product anymore, is targeting F and C pax as state. This is very sad that one of the last major program is turning around. The time will show if this was a smart move or not, as the Flying Blue program. I know that many of my friends will not retain their tier in the FB program since they make it harder to earn miles. And the result they are not loyal to KL or AF when they book their ticket anymore.

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As with Cityprofessional, I shall have to assess the impact it will have as well on my flying. Having been a loyal member since launch of Skywards 10 years ago I don't feel that EK have lived up the expectations of its members. To introduce this scheme at this point when we(frequent travellers) are suffering as well the airlines, is a great disappointment. Just because Skywards change the scheme to award those Pax who fly F&C/J,this situation is not going to change the attitude of our firm's travel policy which is to use Economy or maybe budget airlines where available! This is so representative of the arrogance that I have come to expect from this airline! EK should find a few other schemes to fill their empty premium class seats! So maybe there will be a shift from EK altogether if they are not prepared to reward the Y traveller as they used to. And when a traveller is paying for a ticket for themselves they are going to definitely travel on the best deal that they can find and it will not necessarily be with EK!! All of these changes against the traveller, when there is no hint that EK might introduce an upgraded or Premium Economy (been suggesting that for ages), so that we may still conform to our company's Economy travel policy rules. EK's loss maybe BA and VS gain on the London routes! I am happy to travel 3/4 hour down the Shaikh Zayed Highway to AUH if EY are going to welcome disaffected EK travellers. If EK want to go down the BA Executive Club track so be it, but it will be without me and I suspect a few other pax!

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Skyobserver, I doubt you will have to punish yourself by going up the coast to AUH. I'm sure some of the other European carriers - LH, SWISS, for example - would give you sufficient miles/points. Or, you would have the choice of Qatar Airways. KLM and AF may not give you the full rack of miles for discounted tickets but they do make it up by providing ridiculously cheap Promo Awards online (e.g. it only costs 12,500 miles for a one-way ticket to the US/Canada). But,yes, this does smack of arrogance on the part of EK and I,too, will have to switch to other carriers for my leisure and business travel.

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As long they do have seat availble on the Promotion-Award, and if they do run regurlarly with differents promotions citys and all classes not only Economy.

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In case anybody with a Skywards account wants to get a 'head-start' with Virgin Flying Club to gain Silver status now to be rewarded for flights to and from London, check this link out ...... http://www.virginatlantic.com/corporate/micropage.view.do?id=16537&page_id=1

As well as benefiting from VS flights you can gain on SQ flights going east, an airline that has superb service and extra comfort even in Y when compared to other airlines.... It will be interesting to see if VS get an increase in applications from the UAE for the silver status card and subsequent increase in traffic...

Happy flying!! Pip! Pip!

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OK people, I read the new earnings and rewarding scheme bad, bad, bad ! Do anyone else have other meanings ?

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Hi Jacky Lek Are you reading the original proposals from Skywards? or a New explanation on the scheme? EK are being very reluctant to talk about the new proposals in public. I hear that the media have been asking Brian La Belle, Manager of Skywards, to talk about the new scheme, including an interview on a radio station however he is being evasive. I wonder why? Must be strict instructions from Tim Clark not too open up discussions until the scheme is ready to 'roll-out'! Not that it would make any difference as they are so arrogant in their 'Ivory towers' (or is it glass and aluminium at DXB International!). I expect the worst and I am sure that I shall not be disappointed ! So much for loyalty......EK don't believe in it!

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ahh I see I have found the new site ..... seems that they have listened to a suggestion that i made to provide a site with examples ....however I don't like what I see ! PREDICTABLY POOR MILES EARNING OPPORTUNITIES! EXPENSIVE REDEMPTIONS!

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Ive had a look at the website. The simplicity and clarity of the past is no more. Long live confusion and frustration. Even worse is that the redemption flights are more difficult.

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I remember that they said that F/C will get increase the miles, but from what I can calculate in C-class you only get around 800 miles more in Flex fare I assume in FULL business fare and saver C fare you get LESS 2000 miles !!! What a joke this new scheme turn out to be and the interview that they said! I hope SiteAdm can follow up. And the reward miles is still the same way. My compare route is LHR - BKK .

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FOR THE WORSE! Up until recently the Skywards website was somewhat lacking in information on the impact of the changes meant to make it into a "modern and more sophisticated frequent flier program".

The redemption chart has now been published and (not surprisingly) it appears that it will require significantly more miles to get redemption tickets.

I am based in the Middle East and checked on three zones from the Middle East including East Africa, Far East and Europe (West). In all cases, the required miles for an award ticket has increased (for East Africa, by 35% and the others over 10%). And a 50% increase in the miles required for a redemption ticket from Bahrain to Dubai!

Once again, in my humble view, an airline taking advantage of it's most loyal customers. If there are benefits to the traveler of these changes, I struggle to see them. I am using all my EK miles before 31 December to take advantage of lower redemption rates and the 10% online booking discount (offer lapses on 31 December).

In the current market, a typical airline practice of reducing benefits when they should be enhancing them I will definitely be looking for alternatives to Emirates with the likes of Etihad, Qatar Airways, Oman Air and others.

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The whole change in the scheme is crystallizing. I tend to agree that, overall, the average traveller may well be worse off under the new scheme. This is a great pity and tends to fly in the face of economic reality. In other words, as economic conditions become tougher, airlines should perhaps be attempting to incentivise even greater travel.

Having said that, I guess EK are in fact doing that, albeit by different means. For example, they currently offer an extra 10kgs of checked in luggage on most routes.

One thing that has always intrigued me, when sitting in the Business Class lounge in DXB T3, is to see how utterly jam-packed it gets at certain times. Are these flyers REALLY paying full-price Business Class fares? Or are they Skywards Gold members? Don't get me wrong-I love the programme and am sad that it is changing. But it does seem overly-generous at present and that may be the problem as far as EK is concerned.

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I agree with your comments. It is a downgrade for most FF's as there is now no mile for mile travelled. It is the only FF that I have seen where 'rewarding' means nothing for those on 'flexi fares', but a downgrade for those who prudently purchase saver fares. It is really Emirates way of screening out passengers from thier lounges, as they unsuccesfuly tried at the new Dubai lounge.

I think the advice given to make these changes is a huge mistake for them and there is no loyalty shown to 'loyal' passengers.

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Apologies. Started a new thread when I should have used this one...

Having been an Emirates Gold Card holder and PPS club member for a number of years, I read with interest the comments on the new Sywards redemption and earning schemes. Rather than comment at that time, I decided to wait and see in practical terms the impact on earning and redemption.

Since January I have made a significant number of Business and some Economy class flights. I have also redeemed miles for my children to visit Dubai. The long and the short of it is as follows:

Earning miles becomes much more difficult with the new tiers on levels of Business and Economy class fares. I have flown on the Flex fares and received the full skywards miles allocation (similar to that of the previous scheme, which rewarded any fare). I have also flown on saver fares (both Business and Economy) and received a much reduced number of Skywards Miles. On average I have earned around 40% fewer miles than on the previous scheme. Why would I chose a costlier Flex Business fare when there is a cheaper Business fare available?

Now here's the rub. When redeeming miles for flights, It is now very difficult to find suitable saver redemption fares, the end result is that that one has to redeem the miles for Flex fares at around a 75% premium to the previous saver fares.

Net result for me is that the new Emirates scheme is approximately 115% less attractive.

In summary, earn less and redeem more. As was mentioned in a previous post, there is no real advantage for frequent flyers utilising Flex fare tickets, the miles earned are no greater than the previous scheme. However, when redeeming miles, the lower saver fares seem to be more difficult to find, so even for the full flex fare paying passenger, redeeming miles becomes more expensive.

Due to the attractiveness of the previous scheme, I would consciously plan and time my trips to fly on Emirates. Now I am not so sure. Time to explore other options such as Etihad and poor old BA perhaps.

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When it comes to their miles benefit, it is definitely changind for the worst. To only give 50% of miles for saver fares, is simply a cheap way of saying we dont want you. It also is a clever way of deleting those Gold Skyward members who enjoy this tier status, gained on the miles travelled, which will now not really apply unless they double their travel with Emirates. I wonder how many Gold member there will be at this time next year? A lot less I would predict.

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I would like to get some information from you on how the free upgrade system works? I was on a flight yesterday from London Heathrow to Dubai, and the flight was overbooked so a number of passengers obtained a free upgrade. One of the passengers, was booked on Business class (like me) but is only a Silver tier level, was offered an upgrade to First class. I was surprised that such person would get such upgrade, whereas I, as am a Gold tier member and a very frequent flyer, would not. Would you please explain to how the upgrade system works? I am surprised because since obtaining gold level I have never been offered any upgrades or services of the such. While when I travel on British Airway (and I am only BA Blue level), I do get offered upgrades. It would be helpful to understand this so next time once can see if still to opt for Emirates or choose other flights that take better care of their frequent flyers.

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Firstly, anyone choosing to fly with EK over Etihad or Qatar (other than where EK flies to a destination that EY or QR doesn't) needs their head testing.

Secondly, why does it come as a surprise that EK, as a Dubai government owned entity, is having to significantly tighten its belt?

Thirdly, like all things in the middle east, nothing makes sense. Therefore, in a world where revenues and yields are down, other airlines would look to creative ways to boost revenue. Emirates however has obviously decided that it can make the same revenue from fewer passengers by charging those remaining passengers more. The principle applies in hotels and restaurants in the UAE, with prices having gone UP in the last 12 months rather than down.

The only thing I hope for is that passengers actually start voting with their feet, as I did, by choosing and using other airlines. EK was good, but it is not any more. Poor planes, poor service, poor product, awful airport and the redeeming feature of a sensible FF club now removed. RIP Emirates. Or maybe that is the intention, given the rumour that EK is now owned by Abu Dhabi (i.e. Etihad)?

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Strong words here SimpleDXB, just bcoz someone like EK doesnt mean they have issue in their head ....

But Im with U that EK has fallen behind in all aspect then before. I think the worst thing with EK is transit in Dubai. Is feel so stressfull the airport and the Lounge in Dubai is so overcrowded, I use to have a Gold Card but all this things has take me to other airlines.

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Bob Jazz,

The mysterious upgrade system was explained to me by someone who knew someone who knew someone else! They were told that when a flight is overbooked, the Gold Members are given priority. But the list usually appears in alphabetical order. In theory, the list should be checked by the supervisor, looking for the most frequent flyers, to reward their loyalty. But usually they cannot be bothered and just pick the first names on the list. Perhaps the silver member was a Mr. Anderson, and you are a Mr. Zapata!

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I am starting to experience first hand the effects of the change. Apart from increasing the number of miles required for a reward ticket on a route I fly regularly (Bahrain-Nairobi) by about 50%, there never seems to be so called "Super-Saver" awards available - for example, checking between 15-30 July (First Class) there are 6 seats almost every day on higher priced "Flex" rewards but no "Super-Saver" seats. And I am simply trying to rebook a return flight on a ticket issued prior to 31 December last year when the concept of Flex versus Saver rewards did not exist. Skywards are claiming they cannot accomodate me because my reward is not a flexible one. Extremely confused...

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On a slighltly different topic (and specially as BT is planning an interview with the airlines), I would be curious to know why Emirates has made it so difficult (almost impossible) for a customer to figure out on the Emirates website a link in case one wanted to complain or write to customer service department? If you see the website, there are no easy links available. One can keep navigating all the menu/drop-down menu but it will not be easy to find any link in case you wanted to write. You do not even know who to write? Finally one has to go to help menu and then look for "contact us". In the drop down menu for category of e-mails you will find 4 options and none of them relate to feedback, complaint on customer service etc. If you write (under any of those 4 options and report a customer service issue they may not reply- as I experienced). They have given address of Customer Affairs department but no e-mail id is given. I have experienced writing to them. I had to ask my travel agent to find out the email id for the department to which I should write and he gave me e-mail id of their sales department. When I wrote to them then I was given an email id and then I could send an e-mail. They have replied to that e-mail but I wonder why an airlines would make it so difficult for a customer to write to them?

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Cynically speaking, perhaps they are not interested in hearing our complaints. I have tried emailing - standard "from the manual" response. I have also tried the call centre - standard response. Would like to speak to someone at Manager level but I have been told by the Emirates call centre that their "Management" do not speak to the public (i.e. the people who contribute to their success). I would be interested to get Mr. Brian LaBelle's feedback on why Emirates have changed their Skywards scheme in a manner that appears to have had a negative impact on many customers. But try and get hold of him to answer this simple question..

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I have been pretty vocal about Skywards' new programme and have to agree that, on balance, I am definitely worse off than I was before. But I have to admit their previous programme was probably the most generous on the market. This downgrade, in my opinion, still keeps it ahead of most of the rest. I have been upgraded on two of my last three flights with Emirates and I guess being a Gold Skywards member helps. But where I differ with most of the other people in here is complaint/query resolution. I have only had outstanding service from the Dubai Gold Card service centre, via email. Often they get back to me by return of email and this can be as quick as ten or fifteen minutes. One of the writers who suggested that the Dubai lounges will be far less populated by next year as Gold members are weeded out of the system is probably spot on. To retain gold travelling via a mixture of economy and business class has become much more difficult. But this may well allow Emirates to reconfigure these lounges to cater for a more discerning, less commoditised traveller. I still feel very safe flying on Emirates and reckon their in flight service levels are among the best in the world. The true test of the success of the programme change will only be felt next year.

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Emirates has now create a consumer market, and now they are getting more like the tradition airline like AF, LH, SQ, etc Making their FF program harder, higher fare ..... I can see that Qatar Airways and Etihad is using the same tac.tic as Emirates did in the first...this two airlines is nearly always lower fare then Emirates and other A* airlines......

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