I flew on the so called "Refurbished 773 down from SIN to SYD 17th Sept 09. This was highlighted by BT, & a few people asked me to leave my comments...

SQ have made serious mistakes here...!

The aircraft is clearly old, very noisy, & the cabin seemed poorly insulated from the engine noise, despite me sitting 2 rows before engines in Business, row 15. I could not hear the passenger speaking next to me as we took off at all! the windows were vibrating through the whole 7 hrs flight, as was the shell of my seat. It was truly the most noisy plane i have taken in years...

Then this Regional seat! Its NOT angle lie flat i can tell you. Its in 3 pieces that don't fit comfortably to sleep. The lower leather foot rest falls at a 45^ angle down from your knee to be about 2 inches of the floor. The other 2 cushions under yr hip have a big gap in the middle when stretched out big enough put put yr fist inside & are at a lesser steep angle than yr legs & feet. I had to roll up a blanket to "Plug it" into the gap, to even make it remotely join. So you have 3 sections, with yr knees at one angle of 45^, impossible to sleep on yr side or turn as yr feet will lie unsupported in the air! Nice leather cushions but completely impractical, you slide constantly down, & the leg position will pressure yr circulation in the leg, so a hazard for DVT.

There is little privacy to the seat next to you, the shell badly designed so even when you are reclined, if the person next to you turns towards your side, you will get his breath in yr face! No privacy or space.

The side of the seat when reclined, has a gap again you can easily make a fist in-between on the R a little less so on the left. Anything you drop goes down between the seat & the sealed shell & you have to climb out of yr seat to retrieve it from the front- what a stupid flaw!

Bizzarely so, the whole cabin seating is very low set in the cabin & , with the head rests not covering the back of yr head! If you were more than 6ft tall, you will not have a proper head support. Several other passengers were very unhappy, one man stating that the seats were so small, that he has to look Down at the video screen creating a poor sight angle, & he has to sit & watch not only his screen but the next person in front & the one further along. Such is the low seating you catch parts of the screen of passengers in front for several rows, very annoying.

There is noise pollution in the whole cabin, carrying all around from all of the seats & rows in one section of Business class. The man 3 rows in front of me on the other side, every time he turned his newspapers page everyone else could here it, as conversations, Toilet doors opening at the back of the cabin, crew movements etc. Light is the same with no private level of seating blocking out the whole cabin light or noise as a break, it just penetrates the whole of the cabin. The aisles are also pretty stupidly designed as you arrive at the front of the cabin where the galleys start, & then 1st is situated. Before we even took off, a passenger literally bumped into a crew member & knocked her to the ground! The curtains & gap into the cabin are small, & you have to walk Diagonally one step each way to move right then left to get between. Several crew & passengers hit their shoulders & legs arms during the flight, it is really too small, too angled & a safety hazard. Its this angle /, & the curtain hides the inner part making it impossible to see ahead. I have never seen this with such a small space or angle on any other aircraft, it is totally impractical.

A very badly designed cabin, foolish use of the space height wise, seats that are too low, awkward uncomfortable, flaws in the gaps of between sections of the seat & at the side, & a 45 ^ angle from the knees down to the floor. This is NOT a lie flat angle seat in any sense of the word. I would rather use the old style Raffles seating that at least operated at one angle, without gaps in the cushions, & some, comfort & privacy.

To top it all, SQ now give you a printed menu on the overnight flights (on this 773 SQ231 service leaving at 00.30hr daily arriving to Sydney 11am, with an 8 hr schedule flight), offering you your ONE meal for either dinner or breakfast!!! One course too... Not much point if you haven't eaten that eve, or want breakfast as well, & certainly my "Book the cook" green peppercorn beefsteak, not a good breakfast option! there are no other food or snacks on board.

My beefsteak came 2 hrs before landing having had absolutely no sleep, badgered by noise & light all night, only to find it was a 60% lump of grissle from the centre. Really disgusting. 2 other passengers found the same & it was sent back by all, so we had nothing to eat as a main meal for this flight.

I also noted that many of the foods on selection in the buffet in the Silver Ikris Lounge at T3 Changai, were poorly stocked. hey had no milk, few desserts even though they had empty dishes, 3 pieces of cheese which were quickly snapped up, & a few off pieces of fruit. Visibly people were not happy. I was there for 3 hrs, & this only got worse when the lounge was full with the several hundred passengers for flights worldwide, around Midnight. Truly a great drop in standards,.

I HIGHLY advise anyone who needs to take an overnight trip on this regional seating to completely avoid this aircraft, or i believe the A333 on the Brisbane or Perth routes that were also mentioned by another BT reader. In all aspects it is a completely un-sutiable aircraft & cabin for an overnight flight 7+ hr flight, & in my view a complete waste of money. This 773 is old, noisy from outside to in there seems little shell to insulate, & inside its far from private or quiet with the poorly designed cabin & complete waste of height space. For one of the main flights overnight this is not a suitable cabin design.

Singapore Airlines are losing their grip! Running now only one A380 a day with the new 1-2-1 business seating, , one old 747 with Raffles 2-3-2 seating, this 773 with regional seating, & a 773-ER with the new business (A380) seating, its a mess SIN - SYD. My aircraft was changed from the ER to this regional aircraft, & I will not be using it again, it simply was not worth the money paid & does not meet the suitability for travelling overnight.

I shall be putting this in writing to SQ IN Sydney, & having my flights changed to travel on the new business service as i originally booked (A380 & 773-ER). I shall also include all comments made & observations by fellow passengers, there was a distinct annoyance & disatisfaction of those in this totally full C class cabin.

It's a rip off to provide this aircraft & cabin, & pathetic meal service for up to an 8 hr flight, for SQ, & degraded their image & reputation for service. They really must get their act together on what business class they offer on what route, not variations with every one of the 4 flights. I will not use them down to Sydney in future or Australia. This experience really did bring home how badly things have gone at SQ, & in my view they don't any longer have the in-varied reputation they once did, it is not consistent from any angle that is was a few yrs ago.

Sorry its long guys, but you wanted a detailed account, done my best.

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Hi everyone!!

First of all Mark Roberts9 thank you for your post and sharing of your recent experiences with SQ. Especially the part of not having a meal on board a C class cabin of SQ was a very bad revelation indeed! I am just dumbstruck! This is definitely not the SQ I have experienced a few months ago, when I travelled from UK to Oz. It was the great, relaxing, exclusive flights all the way. Food, service and seats(long haul C class suites) are working and exceptionally good. I am baffled and keep asking myself, how could SQ make a very stupid and beginners's mistake on refurbishing these regional C seats. Have not they learned from their recent highly praised C class suites? They are for example the sliding and the gaps or parts of the seat itself. 7-8 hours flight could be considered by SQ as regional but it is still a long period of time on board. Especially when they demand a nice premium price for it then it is only fair for the pax to experience the best seating and service which is SQ is renowned in the industry. What happen to the good quantity of food and the second service or at least small snacks?? This 4 different configuration for flights to Oz are not the right approach. And why use slick leather in a angled lie flat seat, a huge daftness?? The Silver Kris lounge experience in SIN in terms of food quantity and quality was very good. I had a lot of choices when I transited there, the staffs were very attentive even fulfilling every requests if possible. The lounge is actually big enough to cover the midnight runs to Oz and Europe? I still got a seat and have my peace. What is going on in SQ at the moment?? They should correct the seat angle to full flat like the existing long haul C cabin. I experience lately that the hors-d'oeuvre is often a small portion but if you have a decent main course and the dessert/cheese .. it is still satiable. I am still baffled and asking myself, I am writing these things over SQ right..??? Definitely SQ have to do something about these at once! Or lose premium pax for it indefinitely. The reputation as a world class and leading airline in the industry is at stake, if ignore these awful matters, pax quickly lose their faith and with the big competition out there---then SQ you really have a big problem!!

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Encountered the same problem with CX last year on HKG-SYD and I understand that they received many complaints. All J class passengers want is a CONSISTENT product and service. To be fair to Qantas, you always get their current seat on all international J class sectors north of Sydney. Am going on SQ next month to SIN and then HKG. I suspect that I will be dealt the same treatment by SQ.

The key question is why do (almost) all travel journalists praise SQ- why aren't they on to this. It is about time that the journalists at Business Traveller said something about it.

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It seems these days that BT are more concerned with Cuddling up to BA rather than advocating or prompting discussions with Airlines, or asking Consumer questions. All we hear about is BA BA BA...via their mouthpiece Vintage Krug...!

I am writing to SQ i Sydney whilst here, & i shall raise these points with them. I shall also indicate to them comments on here relating to them. I will post a response.

Needless to say perhaps we should all Review on Skytrax, this aircraft & Regional configuration, & any other sites where we can leave an independant experience of these mis-matched services. Bare in mind, that we have a Raffles class 747 /2-3-2 in Business, an A380 & a 773-ER with the new seat 1-2-1, and a 773 (OLD & noisy), with regional seating.

It seems that SIN- SYD overnight services, have ONE meal service for up to an 8 hr flight. Dinner or breakfast, if you want yr salmon or steak for breakfast on "Book the cook". I would like to "Shoot the cook", for my lump of grissle of a steak that was sent back, with other meals from other passengers! What a waste of money SQ has become, & very over-rated. & very sad but rapid demise recently.

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Hi everyone!!

Refering to my recent posts and to MarkR9. Regarding my night flight from SIN-SYD. I had supper (BTC) and had the lamb meal. It was good but not overall outstanding. My fellow pax was not so happy with his steak meal. It looked tiny than the 6 oz size advertise in the homepage. Although he said explicitly to have it medium rare, the steak came absolute dry. But it seems to me that even the absolute outstanding carriers for decades now are struggling to maintain this high level of service attentivness. Coming back to my meal experiences. Before landing we were offered a piece of papaya and some croissants/marmelade and hot beverage for breakfast. When I asked for any eggs or sausages or similar to hot brekkies. The answer was plainly a "no". Only a kind of refreshment is served. I was a bit surprised and annoyed about it. Luckily I had a connecting flight to New Zealand and I could at least raid the buffet there. So does it mean now that SQ is not only inconsitent in the level of offering 4 different kinds of C class seating, now they are inconsistent of offering or not offering any hot brekkie meal in an overnight 8 hours flight to SYD? So I should consider myself lucky to have been offered a piece of papaya as a meal at all?? OH, dear what happened to the good old time of perfect Asian service with SQ.......!!

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Refering to ChrisFreemann.

If you have been offered by an airline to seat in their premium cabins and enjoy all the premium benefits for nothing. That will be great isn't ??And the only thing they want from you is to write some sentences in how grand and absolutely outstanding their product is to make the premium paying pax jealous and be allured of those " want to be competent traveller experience writer" to fly their premium cabins. I could only refer to other pax that they have to inform themselves properly and experience it on their own. Regarding BT not writing about it....I think Mark has commented it already--we do not want to over expose are prime sponsor of this platform.

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From what I gather from my Singapore-based friends, SQ are keen to keep customers happy and have been known to bend over backwards to do so. So, it would be interesting to see how they respond to complaints. I think the old "I will now switch my company's long-haul carrier to a rival airline" line usually elicits a positive response. If not, I'm sure substitutes to SQ could be found on the SIN-Oz routes?Maybe connecting through KUL wouldn't be so bad if the quality of service on MH is better.

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I'm only hoping this horror doesnt find its way onto the 777's serving BOM-SIN-BOM. The old Biz-class, though dated and a little claustrophobic, is at least reasonably comfortable (though if you have a tummy like mine, getting the tray to lie flat when unfolded is touch-and-go!). There's so much competition now from Jet Airways and Kingfisher offering superior Biz-class products on this route that SQ cannot dare afford to rest on its laurels.

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Lets not forget Air India and Indian! They may not offer a comparable product but they sure do win on their fares.

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Air India and Indian??? Not at ANY price!!!

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I must admit, I,too, am hesitant when it comes to flying AI and IC for more than a few hours (in other words, I just stick to flying them domestic) but, credit where it's due, at least neither airline charges for seat selection and pillows and blankets! Not bad for Third World airlines in an era when First World airlines are nickle-and-diming passengers.

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At last people are waking up to SQ, I am a qualified PPS and have stopped flying with them. The lounge in Singapore is dark and dingy the catering is poor. The food and wine on board has been downgraded, one meal on a flight from South Africa I couldn't even eat it. . The A330 J seats on Per and Bne route are very ordinary. I am now locked in with QF and enjoying my flights. Great FIRST lounges in Mel and Syd and food wines and seating tops.

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A liitle while ago I posted a thread on another forum that pointed out that, for all their faults, this could NEVER happen on BA

BA' single biggest strength is that on every long haul flight, regardless of route, date or aircraft - 747/777/767, even the 318 out of LCY, you are GUARANTEED a Fully Flat Bed

I am both an SQ PPS and BA Gold Card holder and I will only fly SQ if the aircraft has a fully flat bed ( so A380 and 777 ER)

If not I will pick BA or someone else with a flat bed offering

In fact the risk of SQ switching euipment at the last minute - a far from rare occurrence - makes me very reluctant to travel wit them

On BA the "worst" that can happen is that your 747 gets replaced with a 777 or the 777 with a 767 but always with a flat bed

For a flight like SIN - SYD teh SQ new offering is not acceptable - equivalent to LHR - BOS or Toronto and BA will guarantee you a flat bed

We all know BA is not perfect but I think in this aspect thaey are streets ahead

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There is a good point for BA here !! There are other highly appraise airlines like TG which are famous for spontaneous changing of aircrafts and still using seatings in older aircrafts which I think should have been retired earlier or refurbished.

I could only think of few airlines who offer consistently a full flat bed in C cabin in all long haul aircrafts and segments from UK to Oz. That will be BA, VS, EY, NZ......

But the problem is not only having fantastic and sleepable seats but there have to a be the same level of great corresponding meal service to it. You can't just sleep the whole journey from UK to Oz without any proper meals on board ?? Well, there will be some of us who can............

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Totally agree with all the negative comments on SQ. What is most irritating is that their consider their new product far too superior for normal redemption and as such you can only redeem it if you are having Krisflyer miles and that too, for double the number of miles. If you plan using your other Star alliance FFP miles, then forget about it.

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Margie Logarta, the Asian Editor of Business Traveller, no doubt reviews these comments.

So, are we going to get a proper review of SQ and their use of the old business class - or will it just be more awards for SQ?

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Hi everyone !!

ChrisFreeman are you referring to my comments on you ?? If it so--sorry mate-I am not Margie Logarta and not any edtior of any travel magazine. I am frequent flyer like anybody here in this platform sharing my experiences to you all.

Regarding to your plea for more "proper review"--what do you think is a proper review for SQ??--If you have taken time reading those threads over SQ and it's latest regional C class--It was not a successful start I would say. About the SQ service--the comments are on par--but at the moment it wasn't actually good. I personally believe that the service standards and quantity of food in certain routes are worsening. SQ should keep an eye on that.

I am actually amazed how good SQ and CX are rated in the Asian edition Survey 2009. Both airlines are not that absolutely outstanding as in the past years. I would like to have seen NH as best first class as they have really got a great first class product--but they lack PR. What about NZ in Eco class--it is a great seat with plenty of pitch/iInseat videoscreen/ great service?? But here as well most Asian/Pazific travellers just tend not to travel often with these two airlines--so I would say CX and SQ have got good PR--mostly from past laurels and mostly from telling rather than own experience.

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Not referring to you.

I am referring to the airline editors who review SQ premium cabins on their new products and use that as a basis for reviewing the airline as a whole. ALL business class products should be taken into account when reviewing an airline class of service.

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Gentlemen, I hardly think editors would be too harsh on airlines' premium products because, if they were, the magazines would lose the lucrative advertising contracts and the magazine staff might well lose out on free upgrades on those airlines. Anyway, BT is hardly hard-hitting investigative journalism.

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I wonder when BT Asia/Pacific will post a review of the new C seatings--as I am curious how they describe it--comparing to those posted here.

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Margie Logarta sent me an email today and said that Business Traveller Asia is, in fact, looking into this issue of SQ using the 'regional' 777's on the Sydney route.

I will be interested as to what BT says about this.

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I wonder if users in the Biz Class seats for the B777 and the B380's really think the seats are that good - wide, but they are a "spine cruncher", because they afford no support and when you sleep in those silly cubicles, you actually suffocate as the air flow does not allow to be circulated where your head is - in a huge well surrounded by steep walls!! I found out I was actually deprived of oxygen - bad enough as the cabins are reduced in pressure compared to normal atmosphere while flying at 10,000m.. Thank Goodness that SQ is finally realising that they need to have "egonomically" designed seats rather than have seats that they can "talk" about especially in Biz Class and First Class. I hear that there is a change in the so called "wide seats" in the B777 and B380's but they should have never been installed in the first instance. Looking forward to it.. I call the "wide seats" a "pay for the extra baggage seat" - while not seeming to be unkind, because in times gone past, if were were overweight, you had to pay for two seats!! Now, if you are "normal" we pay for someone who would normally have to occupy two seats. No offence intended please!!

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Hi everyone !!

Cashsuds--you have a grudge. What happened ? Alright not everyone like the new C suite style. But I personally do not feel the "spine cruncher" and I had enough air to breath in my flights in those cubicles. The most important aspect for me in this seat was the privacy which the space stresses greatly. I could move and do in my " suite " whatever I want--without invading my neighbours privacy !

I am supporter and love the huge spacious seat in C suite. I hope SQ will keep this seating arrangement. SQ please--do not follow CX horrible C seat--it feels really cramped.

I am not big nor small in size. But I definitely not see that I pay for someone's his seat when flying with SQ in C cabin.

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I have never flown C on the 777-ER or the 380 but have looked at the cabin when I have flown First. The seat looks comfortable when upright but is a potential horror-story to sleep in! For one thing, the width is halved in the latter scenario, making it impossible to sleep on your back (especially if you're bigbuilt), for another, you are in a "Z" position of sorts, with your head and your feet inserted into "slots". In comparison, the angled lie-flat seems like heaven!!

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I fail to understand why everyone complains so much and can't be happy with the fact that they are privileged to enjoy a business class seat.

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Maybe people "complain" (and rightly so) when they feel they are not getting their money's worth. The "privilege" of flying business/first class does NOT come free....someone has to pay for it!

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alberttky- What's "privileged" about working long hours and hard to earn the money to pay to travel with some degree of comfort, choosing an airline on the basis of what it purports to offer, and find it delivers a product you wouldn't have paid for had you known it was what you would get?

Oh and if you think those in the front cabins are privileged, ask yourself why low cost airlines on long haul routes are both extremely rare and always have a business class cabin? The simple truth is that without premium cabins on long haul flights, there isn't enough revenue to cover the total cost of operating and providing the capital for such flights.

In other words, most economy class passengers on long haul are, in effect, subsidised by those in first, business and premium economy classes.

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Mark, I remember having discussed this a while back together regarding how SQ has 3 to 4 different types of J seats and now as well various F seats, and just wondered if you have an update as I was planning to fly down to OZ in two weeks, and (you will be happy to hear), am avoiding BA due to the strike threat as I can't risk missing my flights, and I do not enjoy QF. As you know I live in BRU, so dont have the luxury of the A380. Any suggestions as the flights are long, and I am not able to break them for a proper stay-over. Happy to fly out of BRU, AMS, or at a pinch, CDG (I think SQ is using A380 out of CDG but want the connection to be of equal comfort).

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Hi Folks. Many thanks for taking the time to debate this thread... I believe that Alex at BT has put an article in the March edition of the magazine on SQ in particular, with some of my observations included.

We need to clarify the cabin & seats on the aircraft types: Flying C - 10 Business sectors in last 18 months-

***A380 - (Same cabin & seats in 777-300ER, but in First on R/F.773) Made 3 A380 C flights Sept / Nov LHR-SIN -SYD-SIN sectors. I found the seat very wide, but they have two rectangle pillows, one each side . U can curl up as you would on a sofa legs at the side. The entire shell is very high in the cabin, way above yr head, adding privacy & no noise. (I had to tell of a child behind n had to kneel up to look over the back of the seat!) Sleeping was excellent, the cabin quiet, peaceful, due to the layout & depth of seat in each shell. I slept an un-disturbed 6 hrs. I thought it was wonderful. This is the seat on the(older & refurbished 773) that is in First class. So your business seat is now in First if you wonder where it's gone!

***Older 773- Flew DXB-SIN in Feb 2010. Older aircraft seats a bit fraying, but didn't seem like the old Raffles class either, probably more regional aircraft, but the seats were well cushioned, more cupped on recline, but they were private, solid, cabin was full but it did not sound or feel it. I had a great comfortable few hrs overnight sleep.

***Older ** Refurbished 773 - ( One used daily on SQ231 SIN-SYD 00.40hrs) The comments relate to this as above. For me i will NOT be flying this individual aircraft ever again, it is not suitable for overnight, extremely loud engines, vibrating windows to match it, low set cabin head resting above seat backs and noisy & not private, with no privacy option between seats..you breath into each others faces when angled lie flat...if you haven't slipped down it. The gaps outside the seat cushions, but within the shell mean you hand can go in sidewards. The diagonal entry to the cabin is dangerous, people literally collide.

***747 / 772 Flew a 772 out of AMS-SIN last year also. This had the older Raffles style seats / cabins. Bit old hat now, but comfortable quiet cabin, i slept well n had a relaxed pleasant flight. I had no issues with the seat or cabin that felt negative.

***A330 - Apparently, BNE/ PER/ADL, the new regional C seating is on these, & others on BT have made similar comments. Not flown on this but comments on here from those that have.

My issue is with these Many different cabins, variations of seat, the service issues are additional.

***Lounges at SIN - totally agree with the comments made above as i have over a year, they are facts not one off observations now. ***Meals - changed 2 yrs ago now. On the SQ231 they have been cut to one on the 7-9 hr flight, before landing OR after take off. So you EITHER have dinner or breakfast. This is not to be dressed up "What passengers want / option to sleep" you don't have a choice, just when to feel hungry. There are no desserts, no snacks on board at all. Passengers either eat before or have breakfast in the airport when they land.

DutchYankee, it is a fair trip down here, i would take the time to use the A380 ffrom CDG /LHR or one of the 777-300-ER aircraft with the new business seat in (FRA /Munich), same as the A380. But watch which flight you get down to Oz from there, the aircraft will be regionalised otherwise, & try yr best NOT to take the SQ231 overnight. There is an A380 to Melbourne now on SQ.

If you want even a few hrs & fly overnight on the EU -SIN sectors, you could opt to have a few hrs at the T3 transit hotel, about £35 for 6 hrs, nip into Singapore, or rest up with a base, & your luggage checked through. It wont be a stopover but great to revive, sleep shower, rest or occupy a few hrs or the day, that may help the trip?

Least it is sunny in Sydney (Here at the mo), 30F warm. Wish you a great trip, but pick yr aircraft /seats/cabins wisely! These are very poor issues for SQ now set over 2 years of changes, & not one off's.

I hope that updates for you all, clarifies, & my observations was that of many others on the flights also.

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Dutchyankee:

Mark has provided a comprehensive review of the various biz class products on the SQ fleet.

Best departure point and plane type from where you are would be CDG (using the A380 service) or LHR (with the A380 or B777-300ER) or FRA (using the B777-300ER service). Note that SQ does not depart from BRU while its service ex-AMS uses the B772 with, as Mark says, the older Raffles seating which you may or may not prefer. On the other hand, AMS is easily accessible from Brussels.

Both SQ flights from ZRH currently feature the B777-300ER but from end March, these two services will be combined into a single A380 service.

You did not say which Oz city or cities you are visiting but SQ offers different plane types and biz class products out of SIN to its Oz destinations. If you are bound for SYD or MEL then the best planes to choose for biz class would be the A380 or the B777-300ER.

Good connections between Europe and Oz via SIN using these plane types may not be possible depending on the route you choose, time of day and so on. So a SIN stopover may be necessary.

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Dear Mark and LondonCity, Thanks very much for your great advice and insight. I have checked a number of options on-line and have now booked my flights. From BRU SQ has not operated their own services for over two years now so the suggestion on SQ booking site was a flight connecting in via FRA, but the variety of aircraft exit FRA was, as so well pointed out by Mark earlier and even on SQ's webpage, they said on this particular flight from FRA, 'this aircraft has 4 configurations.' So I avoided this option. Exit AMS was a similar situation on the return flight. I have now booked 14 March CDG-SIN-SYD on SQ 333 and 221 (both A380) but with a very long lay over in SIN, so will probably exit Changi and go to a city center hotel for a good Day Room. Return flights 22 March are great SQ 222 and 334 with a 2 hour connection, and again all A380. I will take the Thalys return from BRU directly to CDG. Fare I thought was a great deal when compared to BA/SQ exit LHR, fare was €4357 total. Thanks again, I will certainly send my view of the flights when I am back if anyone is interested, and am really looking forward to my first flight on the A380. If you have suggestions which seats to choose please let me know????? All the best.

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Good luck! Just returned from Europe on SQ very ordinary. Seats on the A380 and 77w felt claustrophobic, food and wine not up to QF/BA standard, crew good, lounges okay but once again not up to QF and BA First lounges. Also just lost a heap of FF points as they are only vaild for 3 years.

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Hi DY. Thanks for yr comments too. Pleased you got a good deal & the input was useful. For the A380, i would suggest the upper floor forward cabin, best seats rows 12-15. It is a smaller cabin, in front of the galley, & less up & down activity than the longer cabin behind you for C. Also the quite beautiful wide & lit stairs down to the suites, with the bathroom here, & a bit more space to stretch out & walk around.

I think you made a great choice with the A380, & be interested to see how you feel about the extra wide seats.I really curled up like a sofa for me, i thought they were great.

Changai Airport Hotel - AIRSIDE T3 I have in my diary the Changai Airport Transit hotel card, in T3 (+65 6507 9788), better to call as booking on the website causes delays. (www.athmg.com)

Book as soon as you can they are often booked full a month ahead. Can ask for a quiet room over the gates area, & pay the higher premium room rate for single. Perfectly functional, pleasant, private & secure, & the rates about £32 for approx 6 hrs i recall. Very decent place, & great Airside, 5 mins from your gate...book your baggage direct through to Oz & you have no worries, & with yr passport, can nip into the city or use yr SQ Boarding Pass privilage perks, or just rest & freshen up. This brief few transit hotel hours makes the whole journey much more easily tolerable. Hope it breaks up yr flight, & you have an enjoyable, comfortable flight down to Oz.

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Transitting at Changi Airport. May I suggest as an alternative to the Changi Airport Transit Hotel, there is the Crown Plaza Hotel which is also connected to the airport building. It's facilities are very good. So if you don't fancy going all the way into the City, the CP is a very good option.

With regards to service on-board, I've flown on QF and BA in Club recently. QF to Singapore and BA to China. I could not fault QF at all. Overall an excellent on-board experience (everything from cabin crew service, food, lie-flat seats, etc). My previous experience with SQ business has been very good too. But in comparison the airlines that impressed me the most for overall business class is QF and QR.

Unfortunately my experience on BA Club World was the total opposite. Just to clarify, I am not anti-BA. But sad to say, the crew on all flights were generally unfriendly and unhelpful, the food was very disappointing, and even when I wanted to purchase something from the duty free, they couldn't be bothered.

We all know that even the best airlines in the world have good and bad days. But my last flight with BA, and I have flown with them on numerous occasion, was the last straw. I will only fly with BA unless no other airline does.

With regards to on-board catering for business class, again QF, QR, MH & NZ are all very good. Sad to say, when it came to choice and presentation, BA again is no where near that standard. I would agree with the others re. the SQ on-board catering to Australia. That's really disappointing!!

On the other hand, the things I do like about BA is the consistency of the long haul Club World seats, check-in luggage allowance, direct flights from UK and the new Terminal 5.

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Thank you Mark for a very informative independent view on SQ. I concur with you entirely, with 4 trips to The Far East on them in the last 8 weeks, but one into Sydney. Same experience with this 773 overnight. Unless flying the A380 or new Business cabins, my colleagues & i shall be avoiding them, like Thai, as the consistency is now at a poor level on many service issues.

A year old, but may help to see the seats we are taking about...

http://www.singaporeair.com/mediacentre/pacontent/news/NE_0709.jsp

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Hi everyone !

Regarding transiting in Changi Airport--it is really recommendable to take and have the more comfortable Crown Plaza and really chic ! But the airport hotel is okay as well. I personally would recommend everyone flying from Europe to Oz or NZ to make a stopover of 2 days inorder to relax and enjoy Singapore. The hotels in the city are far more better in choices and are more moderate in prices.

About the comparison SQ and BA in C class. Well, about consistency of seatings--a point for BA. It is a shame that SQ is not installing a full flat bed generally without any annoying angles. About the food -- a point for SQ: .(beside the problems of not having a decent breakfast in some flights) -- better food quality and choices because of "Book the Cook ". About the cabin crew service -- the SQ girls are still better than the BA ones, but in some cases-- there are some highlights on BA's side. So the point goes to SQ. About the lounges -- of course both carriers have their best performances in their home base. Their lounges are respectively good in T5 Terraces Lounges or the Silver Kris lounges in SIN. But the winning point here goes to BA as fellow carrier QF share their lounges in Australia with BA which are far more better than SQ or fellow Star Aliiance lounges in Australia or LHR respectively. So the point here goes to BA.

So at the moment it is a tie -- well, you can find other criterias on your own like the entertainment system offered, snacks offered onboard after meals, cleanliness of toiletts etc...

For me the huge SQ dominance in the past -- is now not so huge anymore and in some aspects -- not so dominating anymore. SQ has still the very good image of a premium and leading carrier of the industry -- but it will only stay in the future when they start solving those annoying aspects commented here in BT, otherwise those premium pax will definitely fly with other carriers and the longstanding yearly award of being the best in the industry will be a part of the good old days.

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I couldnt agree more with the last para in Hess' posting. SQ now seems to have become really complacent, cutting corners wherever they think they can get away with it; and generally giving premium passengers a raw deal for the amount of money charged. This has become the norm in C.....but even F hasnt been spared in certain sectors. I hope they heed this wake-up call....as hype will only take them this far!

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Thanks to Alex, for an excellent article in this months BT, re the Asian C class variations, especially down to Australia. Puts the arguments very well, balanced, & examines the problems reported by many of us on here.

However, it seems as though SQ is set on this policy of regarding SIN-OZ routes as regional, with cabins & seats that are not suitable & not worth the rates they charge. I will not be using them in the future, as others down to Australia. These services do not match their usual standard of travel, & the faults they have made no attempt to correct or alter. Very complacent...my business goes elsewhere via other asian Gateways.

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OK. Done. Lets stop talking about SQ business to Oz. I'm bored with this thread. Can't change the seats and they don't read this blog anyway. Steve

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Clearly it is relevant to warrent a 3 page article in the BT Magazine this month.

And the SQ NSW Manager did contact me following my feedback, so they do read..but clearly he cant change a set policy from Singapore.

At least people are now informed about the variations & can make their choice. Stimulated a great debate on here & for the magazine...

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I agree with all the negative comments re. the varied C class products on the different aircraft. Why is there no consistency? Flying between MEL and SIN every other month in the past 14 months, I have found the 773 to be extremely noisy and uncomfortable, and the provision of just one meal (either supper OR breakfast) is appalling, considering that the airfare is the same as one would pay on 773-ER or A380. Having flown SIN-MEL a fortnight ago, the 773 was so old that the seats were not only frayed, but the tiny PTV screen was creaky and its resolution so poor as to render it almost unwatchable.

I had been looking forward to sampling the refurbished C on the 773 (which has still NOT reached the SIN-MEL route yet!), but after reading so many negative posts, perhaps I won't bother.

On the subject of the unrefurbished 773, the F seat is only a little more comfortable than its C counterpart, on account of more legroom, but one would expect a full-flat bed rather than a reclining chair on an overnight flight (as is the case on SQ 237 SIN-MEL). Once again, you pay the same fare as on the 773-ER (though less than R class (Suites) on the A380, yet are only offered either supper OR breakfast, yes, even in F class. Simply appalling. Yes, one could argue, why not just pick the better aircraft, but often, circumstances do not permit you the luxury of such choice.

Re. Silver Kris lounge in Changi T3, I have no complaints, and give SQ full marks for its F class section, esp the Private Room for full-fare paying passengers, where meals are a la carte.

I agree that SQ's standards have dropped considerably, and is no longer my first choice, since its airfares are almost identical to QF's. On the Oz-SIN route, I would also consider EK, and if I don't need to stop in SIN, then definitely Etihad.

In January, I flew F overnight SIN-MEL, and had to change seats 3 times because of defects (electric footrest would not extend), and there was a large piece of plastic hanging loose from the seat in front of me (I was in 2A). I asked for both supper and breakfast, and the response was a grudging..."errr.......ok". All this for A$5,700 return, and I was the only passenger in F! When I wrote a complaint to SQ, all I received was a one-class upgrade voucher, which I thought simply pathetic.

I do wonder if SQ is resting on its laurels and trading solely on its (once) sterling reputation. Perhaps people don't care enough to vote with their feet and their wallets.

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I'm glad more and more people are realising that SQ's standards have dropped abysmally and they are indeed "resting on their laurels". No caviar in F any more, on BOM-SIN-BOM. And vis-a-vis meals, you need to go through hoops to request a cheese-platter in advance.... and if you "book" a fruit-platter, you are told you will have to forego the main meal, since its an either/or situation!!!

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