I have been trying to book with BMi -diamond club for business class seats from KUL to LHR on Singapore airlines but all I am getting is Lufthansa. Has any one flown this route? Are the seats lie flat bed? or the nasty similar style KLM seats- at an angle that you keeping down to the flooor and have an uncomfortable sleep all the way?

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Hi, the biz class of LH does not have lie flat seats but is comfortable. service of LH is good but not as good as SQ. One more fact to consider, LH flies via BKK to FRA.

Rgds

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Thanks. but I think I am opting for Thai for the lie flat seats and the space. Itsonly 6 abreast in the cabin on the 340/777.

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Hi, Hate to deflate yr expectations, however as an annual triple gold THAI FF, I think you may be disappointed with the Thai offering. In business class they are certainly NOT layflat. They are the 170deg ones. LayFlat is only available in First on Thai. Also think the flight from KL to BKK will most likely be an old plane... however the cabin crew and service are still "second to none" and the "Smooth as Silk" motto is still very true ( and yes I am a little biased - sorry). Comes from experiencing too much bad service from other carriers.

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Thanks for that. As long as the service is great and its a daylight flight , so I won't necessary want to go to sleep, just 40 winks! Thanks anyhow! I see its the 340 600 on most days now and the 747 is rarely at heathrow, but I gather even the 747 seats have been altered?

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On my last flight to LHR, TG used an old 747 but new biz class. I recommend the upper deck because TG has a strange configuration on his lower deck.

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Thanks for that.

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Hi, yes all the aircraft flying b/n LHR and BKK have been upgraded to the new seating and Entertainment systems. Interesting comment abt sitting upstairs on the 747... I actually prefer downstairs although its a smaller area... ( behind first class) it is cosy and generally I find better service.. but the fact that we all prefer different things makes the world a wonderful place,, enjoy yr flight and the cabin service

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Yes I too prefer downstairs. I guess we are all different. I find upstairs before the exit very noisy.

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Hi there ,dear Business Class Comfort Seekers !

Actually ,one good option of an outstanding business class on board is Qatar Airways via Doha ...the comfort ,the ambience ,the attentive service ,great food and superb premium terminal facilities in Doha all shape up the image of a caring airline ...!..you stand to collect miles in the LH Miles and More ( not sure about Bmi scheme ) ,but just award miles ,not status ones .........

I still endorse the statement that TG crew and Smooth as Silk motto is a FANTASTIC REALITY ....!!!...TG lounge in BKK is an awesome shelter !!!

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Dear KSHaggag,

Yes you can collect miles of Diamond Club. I just did a trip on Qatar in March 09 and yes it was good and better than Etihad in Feb 09.

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The C product is not bad but not overall great either. It is just good. You expect a lie flat angled seat which most of the users here say it is pretty good once you have find the right angled ( after an hour or so ) I personally expect full flat and hope in the new A380 or B747 new gen which are ordered that LH will see this as an oppurtunity to improve its product.

Regarding service attitude: It depends on the mood of the F/A some are very chatty and outmost attentive, while others could be cold and unhelpful. If you speak German--you might get a bit of advantage to other pax. Sometimes there are Asian based crew on board and it gets really hospitable like SQ and TG. But the overall picture is that the crew's attitude has improved since the times where we describe them as efficient robots like the efficient German cars. About the food quality: it really improves since the days where the quality was inedible and fruit pieces are from the conserved cans. The often offered seasonal tasting of wines and meals are very nice alternations from the routine meals.

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My good memories with LH Business class were only related to the days when in flight internet was available and i thoroughly enjoyed using it. I wish it starts soon . Aside from that, nothing to laud their service which is in one short word- just efficient - but lacks anything warm or special. The lesser said of their in flight meals and the lounges in their airports, the better. Just like the in flight magazine which reminds me of a manual of the Mercedes Benz car.

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Hi all,

I flew LH to Delhi last year and it was probably the only occasion when I got a completely undisturbed night's sleep (once I'd stopped playing with the seat controls). I thought their Business Class product overall was excellent.

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Well, I think we have different tastes here--but that is absolutely normal !! I just don't understand how could LH with it's lie flat angled seat attract so many fanciers ? Food I would say is the same as BA CW, F/A service attitude same good as well. Entertainment system same good here too. So if it comes to the deciding inch of who is better in C class BA or LH, is not full flat more better ??--I definitely prefer BA because of this fact. Especially when you weigh the lounge experience to the toll--BA lounge terraces in LHR are far more better than the existing lounges in FRA.

Would anyone oppose ?? Why ??

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Hi Hess.

Yes, I'd definitely agree with you about the superiority of the Terraces in T5 (which I would suggest is one of the best lounges in Europe). Apart from that, as you say, it's a matter of taste. You may recall, I wrote in an earlier post asking whether LH was lie-flat or not - that shows how much I know!!

Cheers, Simon

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Hi everyone !!

Hi Simon--well you know I am actually bias regarding lie flat angled or full flat seat as I could not rest in lie flat angled seats--I have flown with great airlines like TG or MH with fantastic services and all--but the one thing which mess my flight up is the seat. I just cannot get a proper sleep on it! So actually I envy you and others here in the forum who can manage that, inspite of all the pushing and manoeuvring on the control panel. Last time on LH I tried for a long time to get my seat nearly flat--my neighbour sitting next to me was giving me some eyes and wondering what kind of strange movements I was doing--after so many flights on different airlines I just became indifferent to such eyes comments as I wanted to sleep or more drowse actually.

You'll going to laugh about this !! I flew RJ C class with their A340.The seat is a full flat seat like in the other F class products. Really spacious. When I recline my seat full flat--I had the weirdest feeling--I mean I've got the feeling to slide backwards or my head and my torso were lower than my lower body part. So I meant to angle my seat( the head part ) a bit to stop that weird feeling. I later asked the purser, if that has been commented by other pax. She said yes and she knew the experience. She told me the front part of the plane goes up in certain degrees during the flight--so when I recline my seat full flat--I get the feeling of sliding backwards or my upper body is lower than the rest. I don't know, if this is true ?? Perhaps some other users have might had the experience and know the answer for it ??

Regarding LH C is a good product--as I like to fly with BA and LH(we won't exaggerate here!) it is just like " love and hate" at the same time in certain flights. I just want these two which I prefer to fly with to improve their products .

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Dear Hess963,

I believe we had the discussion earlier about "flat" versus "angled" seats. When LH introduced the current seat, the discussion around angled seat was defended by the fact that an aircraft like a A340 will fly with 8 degree angle up. Meaning, the nose of the aircraft is point 8 degrees up in flight. Hence, many of the "angled" seats have an 8 degree angle to match the airplane. So, the feeling of sliding backwards could be real.

Now, why this is not an issue on BA CW or UA's new product I don't know,

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Hi everyone !!

HI Senator !! Thank you for the notion of my weird experience with the A340. I think that might be the answer to your question as well. I personally did not have such experience with BA CW in both B747 or B777. Even though my seat is full flat--no back sliding or whatever. I think this phenomenon is basically in the A340/330 ??? About UA--I don't know--I did not encounter that situation while flying in their new C class--but here as well more Boeings than Airbuses on longhaul.

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Hi,

My understanding is that all aircrafts fly with 8 degree angle. In the case of LH they have 747 and A330/340 with this installed. AF has 747, 777 and A330/340 so I don't believe it comes down to aircraft.

The logic I can't grasp yet is how does this work on carriers with true flat seats like BA, VS, NZ... If aircrafts are flying with an 8 degree angle, shouldn't passangers feel like sliding down if we follow the "angled" seat marketing logic of why 8 degrees?

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Hi Senator !!

From my personal experiences with BA, VS and NZ and JL in F --all full flat seats--no sliding experience at all with or without the 8 degrees in front of the B747 nose.

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Hi all,

My wife and I are flying MCO-FRA with Lufthansa Business Class in early November. Does anyone know if there's an arrivals lounge in FRA for long haul business pax.

Thanks a million.

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Dear PJordan

I am not sure whether there is a business class arrivals lounge in FRA, but I would be very interested to hear what you think if the LH service from MCO and whether you are using it back to the UK instead of VS or BA.

Many thanks

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Hi PJordan, Yes there is an arrivals lounge at FRA. It's newly opened and I used it last week. It's a bit stark, but very comfortable with very clean facilities, showers, plenty of flat screen tv's and an excellent self service buffet with hot and cold food, including bacon, sausages, eggs and almost every beverage you can think of including German Sekt (I think it's called that?).

After baggage reclaim and having gone through customs turn immediately right and you'll see it signposted. They have facilities to store your baggage as well. We had six bags and they did not hesitate to take care of them.

Enjoy it and have a good trip.

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Hi Martyn & Lugano.

Thanks for your very prompt responses. I am actually going on to Dublin, I used some of my Diamond Club points to fly back home from MCO. Incidentally only a couple of days ago Aer Lingus began to offer business class from MCO to DUB, and at amazingly low fares. I'll let you all know what the service is like, but it will be early November.

Thanks Lugano for your info, the breakfast sounds good. We won't have luggage to worry about, but the shower and change of clothes will be most welcome.

Thanks again folks, and if anybody tries Aer Lingus Business Class on the DUB-MCO route, now is the time to book... the fares are amazingly low.

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I did not realise you were transiting. In this case you will enter into Schengen somewhere in the bowels of the airport. You can then use the business lounges (or the Senator one, much nicer, if you have the gold card/senator status) in the transit area. They have showers but I must admit if you have the time, the land side lounge as I described is much nicer.

If you have an iPhone/Pad Lufthansa have a useful navigator app. It has all the lounges marked on it and how to get to them.

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Thanks for that, Lugano, I have Gold Star Alliance status which will be useful.

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Hi...SQ does not open up seats in J or F on 380's unless they are last minute. I cannot recommend LH F class enough (if you have the points). I will fly J class with them in a couple of weeks and can update you if you want.

Cheers!

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Hi Kthompson !

But SQ s A380 does not ply yet any transatlantic route ....the JFK/FRA is operated by 744 and the Houston /Moscow by B777-300ER ...so,no way to fly it on the way from MCO to Europe ...

In my opinion ,LH J cl in the air and on the ground is indeed average ..it is okkkeyyy ....their lounges even the Senator ones are not inspiring ..they still need to do it right for business class ,,,,THeir F lounges are outstanding but in J it is very very average ,not up to one s expectations ...however i have not tried their arrivals lounge in FRA ....I hope u like it ..pls brief us once u have sampled it ..

Cheers !

Karim

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My apologies. I understood from the first post that you were looking at KUL to LHR on SG. Checking starnet for you I could not find anything and then noticed SIN to LHR was on a 380...hence the blocked seats.

Hope your trip is ultimately a good one!

Ciao.

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Thanks. I finally flew Thai, but it was a bad experience. The food was not up to standard, The service appalling and worse the seat was broken. What's gone wrong with Thai? Bye Bye Thai.

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Concerning Thai ,they have the BEST ever lounges in the world in Bangkok Suvarnabhumi ,however on board the standards are inconsistent ..you can have a perfect experience once and a dreadful one one other time ....the seating standards are not the same on all the aircraft ..you might be very happy once with the comfort on board and then get a shock the next time .....I believe you ought to choose the flight based on the type of aircraft deployed ...also ck the seating on seatplans .com before booking ...

Cheers !

Karim

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Whilst not making any excuses at all for the 'less than expected cabin service' -- like anything else in this world .. if you treat your staff badly .. they unfortunately do not perform as well as they could ... even if its not intentional. Thai staff have over the past year had incomes cut dramatically and had to fly longer with less breaks. The ever present 'Thai Smile' is often no longer there ,,, as everyone is continually tired... this is no good for them and certainly no good for pax or the company ... short term savings often end up with longer term costs .. as we are seeing in the 'experiences' of pax. The really sad thing is I am convinced the lowering of cabin standards is not deliberate at all .. just a function of overwork... Regards lounges .. as long as its ok ... who cares .. I didn't buy a ticket to sit in the lounge .. I want good airplanes and good service on board ... the lounges are really irrelevant in my eyes anyway..

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I was under the impression that TG always used aircraft with the new style seating for LHR-BKK-SYD . Is this not the case??! Have just booked to go in December. Has anyone ever managed to get a J or F class on SQ for BMI reward points?

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Hi Karim,

Sorry ,but why worry whether you are going to fly on a particular aircraft or not. Thai changes the aircraft without warning. Best to avoid it. Fly other star alliance carriers if possible. Have flown Thai on four occasions and so far it has been a disaster for me. In September we have Thai on a short flight from Bangkok to Colombo and back in business, but as there is no other choice so I have to use Thai. But on the LHR-BKK-LHR we are going on another star carrier.

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On Thai there is no guarantee! Their 777 has a far better layout than the 747. Even with the new seating on the 747, our seats were broken and the service bad, SQ will not allow you seats on the A380 or the 777-300 on the LHR-SIN-SYD. I would try going on Air New Zealand /United. Go through the ANA search engine and find out a routing to SYD using a combination of carriers or visit he star alliance website which will give you all the possible combinations and then call BMI centre and state your routing.

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There have been some pretty 'average' experiences with SQ over the past 12 months too .. so I am afraid all the 'cutbacks' are affecting most carriers... heard that Air NZ still pretty good though ...

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My Fellow Flyers !

I do have a suggestion however I am not very sure how it works ..Pretty much indeed ....I have always heard fantastic comments on ANA however I have personally never tried them before ....remains to ck whether a connex LHR/NRT/SYD can be secured ,however this is a lengthier path .... Another real star in the Star Alliance is indeed Asiana via Seoul ....anyone ever tried them before ?..they have been scooping top accolades of service excellence ....

Cheers !

Karim

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Yes I have heard the same about SQ, but it also depends on the staff. I remember flying SQ some years back on the SIN-MLE-SIn route the service was average and the food really bad. Yet on the LHR-SIN-LHR it was very good. I was booked on the A380 before it flew on LHR-SIN-LHR route ON MY bmi Miles but sadly I was taken ill and could not go and had to cancel the trip to Brisbane. Have been on the SQ A380, but I would say the Quantas product is much better than the SQ business class! a personal preference.

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I had a very disappointing journey with SQ from SYD last year - was on the 777ER from SIN-LHR - didn't really care for the huge seat, not very comfortable for sitting - service was nothing like I remembered from years ago - fixed artificial smiles all the way!

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Let me share a personal experience on the A380 in business class with Air France from JFK to Paris ....it was ok without being impressive ....AF along with SQ and I don t know about QF,LH and EK ..they are all squeezing in masses of passengers seats in business class as the seat pitch is lower than on other aircraft types ...SQ has a 52 inch seat pitch there ,vs 60 and more on 744 s and 777s ........!!!..however they claim to have the widest seat in the air ....seat pitch is nevertheless important ..........i am not comfortable when I have to bend my legs and knees ....remains to be seen how the KE new A380 coming up will be like ....KE is a brilliant contender however in Skyteam ....I do support it ...eagerly !!!

Cheers

Karim

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By the way guys You can fly Emirates on FIRST CLASS by paying business class fare. Its a free upgrade. The tickets are on sale till 9th August and only available from two agents: Flight centre and Trail finders. Just booked an elderly aunt on EK to Christchurch( Dec 09 returning Feb 2011) from LGW. The connection from Dubai to SYD is on the A380

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If you are looking for consistency, good friendly service and reliability, why look further than Swiss. Flights from Bangkok to London, Dublin etc via Zurich. Excellent lounges and the F lounge at Zurich during the transfer is second only to Frankfurt's F lounge, with toilets, showers, at table dining if wanted or else a buffet.

The seats are the angled / flat ones but fully flat in F.

As a bonus, if flying F, they will take you by car to the aircraft at Zurich if it's not at a gate, and in either case you bypass the security queues with a reserved security lane especially for their VIP pax.

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If yr considering Swiss... fly first class as the seats on the A340 from ZUR to BKK in J are amongst the most uncomfortable I have experienced... service etc are good ... Also had the 'car service ' in Zur ... took us all of 30m and arrived after the business class PAX... not really a great idea unless one is into appearances and making a 'grand' entrance onto the aircraft...

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Dear LuganoPirate !!!

It was just on the tip of my tongue !!!!...I wanted to say there is nothing like Swiss especially in F .........!!..however they do not fly to SYD so u still need to connect in BKK or HKG onto another carrier ....

Excellent service ,superb crew ,soothing ambience and flat F bed ....what do u want more ????....also Status Senator and HON Circle miles ....Zurich hub is the best in the world ( in my eyes ) ....I wish they flew to every corner of the globe ..!

If you get a good fare in J LHR/MEL via DOH ,go for Qatar Airways .....but just to MEL ....................outstanding !

Cheers !

Karim

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Hi Karim,

I seem to have lost my way on this thread and missed the SYD element. It's a shame Swiss don't fly down under as I hope to go there next year so I will check out your reco nearer the time.

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Iflytoomuch, you are right in that you often arrive after the other PAX, and indeed I have been asked a couple of time if I'm someone "famous"!!! I'm not. Just an ordinary pax flying a lot.

However, what I like about the service is there is no waiting around. No queuing to show boarding passes whilst dragging hand baggage. You avoid the crush on the bus and it comes into its own when its raining and the bus driver wants to get off in a hurry.

Since Swiss keep the middle seat free in C there is usually ample baggage space and if not as soon as the crew see you coming by car, the service level jumps 200% anyway as they take your bags, coat etc and stow it all for you whilst thrusting a glass of something into your hand before you've even managed to sit down!

So it's really not for the appearance of making a grand entrance but another very useful service that makes the ever increasing burden of air travel that bit more comfortable and a good bit less stressful.

Best wishes to you both and happy travels.

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Hi, still doesn't excuse uncomfortable seats ... and like my comment earlier .. I fly to get somewhere , so on-time arrival ( or early) and comfortable seats are far more important in my eyes, guess its like wonderful hotels with lousy uncomfortable beds .. but a great lounge ... and free drinks ... thanks for the wishes...

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SQ do not allow Diamond Club bookings in the new Business class cabins. this was covered in many posts & also Alex's articles on SQ last over the last 12 months.

You may well get a flight into Amsterdam as they still run the 777-200-ER older style cabins, but they wont allow reward seats on the 777-300er or a380'S that fly into LHR. Same situation for flights into Sydney from Singapore.

Pity, but been the situation for last 18 months +. Best to use the DC miles up before they get amalgamated into miles & More though...

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