I heard CX pushed out new business class seats a while ago. I'm flying from Hong Kong to Vancouver in September, I'm still deciding if I should take Economy or Business.

Since I've read many bad reviews on CX's new business class seating arrangements - how the space is limited and such...

Has anyone tried the new business seats on CX?

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the seats are rubbish it like traveling in a horse box. Iam a gold card holder with CX and regualarly trave between TPE to LHR but not with Cathay any more since they put in these new buisiness seating.

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You have to check whether they use the aircraft with new business class seats on this route as I have often went on CX long haul flights to encounter an apology at the check-in or lounge - "change of aircraft"!Though I fully agree that it does feels like being in a box but it is flat and comfortable to sleep. If you are to spend long hours working, do recline your seat because when it is fully upright it is most uncomfortable.

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I am an experienced travel advisor and just wanted to share my thoughts too - Cathay Pacific are an exceptional airline, you dont get to world number two status for no reason..! BUT, like many other airlines out there including the likes of Emirates, you will always have the risk of an "aircraft change" and end up dissapointed and let down. My reccomendations for guarenteeing a preferred flat bed product in Business would be Etihad, Qantas, Singapore, BA, Vigin and Air Newzealand. In termsof customer satisfaction for getting what you pay for, you wont be let down!

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Two years ago, I flown before in the CX Business Class herring-bone layout seat from HKG to SFO. After a couple of hours, i felt so 'boxed-in' - just wanted to scream "let me out of here!" And this is on the upper deck of a 747 which has less passengers. When i saw the lower decks seats, i cannot imagine ever being there. Upon my return flight LAX-SFO, imagine my relief when i was told that the plane has chaged and had the older business class seats. I could breathe again. I have a stewardess friend in CX, and when i relay it to her, her reply was CX Management has conducted survey and many were satisfied with the new seats, although the stewardess do not fancy the new seats as it makes it awkward for them to serve the meal tray.

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I flew CX (KUL - JFK return) last September on their new business class - I must say, it was quite a painful experience for me. I couldn't agree more with the numurous reviews that you feel cramped and boxed in your seat. I'm an averaged sized person.

Flew KUL - HKG (A340-300) last month with the old (long haul) business class seats - they were much better. Also travelled on the 777-300 old (medium haul) business class - you get sense of breathing space.

In contrast, 2 years back, I flew Singapore Airlines (SIN-JFK-SFO-SIN - combination of 77W and A340) on their new business class - unbeatable. Just returned last week on Malaysia Airlines (KUL-LHR-CDG-KUL - combination of 747 and 772)) - it was pretty reasonable.

It is very unlikely I'm going with CX to ATL this July. Gonna give BA a try.

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It's perhaps worthy of note, in response to Travel_Exec's post above, that Singapore only offer a horizontal flat seat in Business Class on their A380 and 77W-operated services. This is no longer an issue from LHR, but it continues to be an issue from Manchester as well as some other EU hubs. Connections East and South East from Singapore are statistically even less likely to be A380/77W-operated, and indeed may utilise Singapore's 'Regional' product(s), even the latest of which is not flat.

Similarly, Qantas only have a horizontal product on their A380s. Their other long haul aircraft are fitted with 'wedgie' flat seats.

Air New Zealand are a safe bet on the NZ1/2 and NZ38/39 routes via Los Angeles and Hong Kong respectively, but note that routings through Tokyo (sold in conjunction with Virgin) might find you on a 'regional' 767, with a 90s-era business seat which does not even cradle. It will be a recently fitted cabin, but the seat is desperate for an 11 hour-plus AKL-NRT sector. This also applies to some Transpac routings with island stopovers.

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Is there anyone who likes CX's new seats?

I have heard several detractors at the office complaining about these new designs.

While their F is pre-eminent on that route, in Business and Economy Classes they seem to have dropped the ball in the same way Virgin did with the J2000 wedgie bed in Upper Class. Those J2000 shockers were removed from the fleet in a matter of years.

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I fly CX's F class longhaul regularly and it is terrific. I have taken a good look at the J class and it looks narrow. Having said that, the YVR/HKG flight is a night one and you probably want to sleep ? It is flat but I don't know what AC's J class product is like ?

It is a pity CX's Director Customer Service appears not to condescend to respond to posts on BT ? He never posted a reply to the threads on the lack of good arrival lounge facilities in LHR ?

BT - Can you press him to respond please ?

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Good evening,

We've had a previous debate on CX business class within the letters page of the Asia-Pacific edition, and we put these on the forum. They can be found here, along with CX's reponse.

http://www.businesstraveller.com/discussion/topic/Cathay-Pacific-new-business-class

with regard to the separate thread on lounge facilities, CX has responded twice and we will ask for a further response, though this might be difficult to get until after the weekend now.

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Site Admin - Thank you.....we all appreciate the effort !

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I love the new Business class seating of CX (747-400) Yes its considered small if you are a 200 pound passenger or if you are 6feet tall but for petite people and most Asians it is very comfortable, there is also privacy which I love I think if you will fly long-haul it is important not only to consider the seat but more importantly the SERVICE the airline will give you from the ground staff up to the cabin crew This is what I value rather than seat type because when you encounter problems thats where you can count on CX ground/cabin crew to readily help you.

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6 feet and 200lbs is not abnormal.

The seat is claustrophobic and tight for many passengers. Business class is about having a good amount of personal space - and that includes Western-sized passengers.

Service is good on Cathay, and indeed it *is* one of the best airlines going. But the new business seat is an own goal.

I rely on the seat for a good night's sleep, and the quality of the seat never varies. Even CX Cabin Crew and ground staff have bad days.

My vote is for ensuring that those aspects of my trip which can be guaranteed as unchangeable are of the highest standard.

CX's new seat does not meet that criteria.

Oh, and proper procedures for LHR Arrivals Lounge access so I don't arrive at the office looking like I was dressed by Gordon Brown.

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I think we all know now--that there is only two choices for this CX C seat: " either you like it or you hate it "---apart from this too narrow and too short pitch for bigger persons--the service and the rest of it onboard are just great. You just learn how to cope with the tight width--reclining a bit helps to minimize the narrowness. When full flat--you enjoy a nice sleep. Still one of the best in the industry !

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Being 2 metres tall this all becomes a debate around the other elements of service that make the overall business class experience as no carrier provides a seat long enough for me (excluding BA 64 A and K - upper deck 747) and having flown with the new CX seat a number of times I don't think it is as bad as some people are making out on this forum.

I generally find that all the herringbone style seats are restrictive in terms of elbow room and that includes AC, NZ and Virgin. In fact the AC seat is probably my least favourite in this layout due to the low side walls where all you can see across the cabin are other peoples heads and shoulders! At least with CX it does feel like a private space.

As Hess states it is generally a choice issue but I would rate CX business class overall both new and old above many other carriers and would still prefer new business to sitting in the back of the plane. I think we should count ourselves lucky to at least be flying business with these carriers as the vast majority don't get the opportunity

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I cant for the life of me figure out why anyone pays CX biz class fares when for the same money you get BA far superior biz class. You use the CX or QF lounge in HKG and get the superb lounges in T5. For sure if F been flown the CX is light years ahead of BA but then LHR T3 really is the pitts.

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The business class seats on Cathay do take a little getting used to, especially if you are used to the BA seat configuration although, they too have their draw backs. I must say, I now like the Cathay seats, they seem wider to me than BA when they are in flat bed position and they are certainly more comfortable, and I am a curvy westerner !! Cathay on the Hong Kong/London route are fantastic and never seem to have the off days that some of the BA crew have from time to time. I am and will continue to be a BA executive club member but will now mainly stick to Cathay for this route.

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I was one of those "guinea pigs" who tested the proposed bed and layout in a factory unit near Birmingham almost 6 years ago. The consensus was that "horizontal" is always better than "lie-flat", but the cabin would be claustrophobic. It was also pointed out that the layout they were choosing meant that there was no such thing as a window seat, and no way for 2 people to travel together. All those who had travelled on the, then new, VS product felt that CX were copying it.

I have since travelled on the seat and my view that the layout is wrong has not changed. The CX service is predictably consistent.

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I have to disagree, BA biz is way superior than CX for comfort. I dont care about crew and food etc, I do this route monthly and get on board having pre-fed and showered and go to sleep. I did this 10 days ago and slept from before push back to 40 minutes before landing in HKG on BA. I also detest the far too many in flight announcements you get on CX, with BA you get none apart from take off and pre landing

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I have flown CX many times between NY and HK in Business Class and I absolutely LOATHE the new herringbone business seats. They are uncomfortable, totally claustrophobic, there is no arm room, one cannot even open a newspaper to full width, and if you are travelling with a companion you cannot communicate with them as they are in their own separate cell. CX claims that passengers wanted privacy - well then how about having a roll down partition so that if you don't want to feel totally hemmed in you have the option to open your space which would also permit talking to a travel companion or another passenger? And if you want to get up you have to move the IFE screen as well. I seriously wonder what "suits" gave the approval to this horrific design and if they have ever actually flown 15 1/2 hours strapped into a narrow box.

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Tell us something we didnt already know. By the way there are only about 15 other airlines you can chose from.

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To Steve Fenton - if you were referring to my posting then I would sure like to know what the other 15 airlines are from which you state I can choose. Flying NONSTOP from NYC/JFK to Hong Kong offers me but two choices: Cathay Pacific CX830/831 or Continental Airlines which only flies from the dreadful Newark Liberty Airport. While Continental's seats are far more comfortable I simply will not use Newark. As such that leaves only Cathay Pacific. You are right, they do make far too many inflight announcements.

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Chinaboy - surely the better onboard seat for 16 hours out weighs the negatives of having to use Newark airport?

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I must say that neither is an especially pleasing option. On the other hand I suppose anything is better than Newark Liberty Airport! Best of all, use one's miles for an upgrade to First Class which is what I did for my upcoming flight back from Hong Kong to JFK.

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One of the best F class in the world IMHO

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If you are flying alone and dont like seeing or talking to anyone the seat is ok. If you are flying with anyone ( partner business associate children etc) it is completely unacceptable and is a joke. Imagine not being able to make talk see or hear the person you are flying with.

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Having seen some of the people on planes these days thats not such a bad thing actually and also some of the people I actually have to travel with, having a wall between us for 13 hrs and no where for them to sit and talk to me is pretty good.

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yes I agree but what happens when you actually travel with someone. Have you ever wanted to talk to your partner on the plane?

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Many times, she sits on the footrest stool despite it saying dont sit there, or we go and stand in the galley to stretch our legs and have a drink. Its hardly as bad as you make it out, you make it sound like they lock you in a padded cell, get with it or fly someone else.

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Also you would have the same challenge using any carrier that has the herringbone layout so Jet, Virgin, Air Canada, Air New Zealand.

Its all about personal preference and to be honest its great to have your own personal space. However if you are flying with partner and work colleague then use a carrier that has the more normal business class seat lay out

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yes you are right I will travel on the Qantas skybeds from now on but I still needed to talk about these cathay seats as they are worse than padded cells and I need therapy after 9 hours straight in one.

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Business Class seat is awful, no view and seated at at such an odd angle. When looking down the upper deck aisle I though it looked like a morgue and the only thing missing was toe tags. The meal delivery was awkward for the crew and on my flight there was just one redeeming feature and that was the superb IFE. I would never suggest that CX were unsafe but I did have some concerns about my safety if the aircraft stopped suddenly on the runway. Due to the angle and the narrowness of the seat I felt my head would easily have come into contact with the divider in such an event. My experience was that it was cramped and very badly designed. I would not wish to use it again and certainly not ex LHR where BA club World is undoubtedly the premium product.

CX First product by comparison, is simply superb and I would agree it is one of the very best out there.

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Much as I love Cathay Pacific and I fly them exclusively between NYC and HK and back to NYC on a regular basis, always Business Class, I must state what I have said since they first installed the new herringbone seat configuration: these seats are simply dreadful. They are narrow, you cannot open a newspaper all the way without bumping your elbows on the horrific side panels, they are claustrophobic, and distinctly uncomfortable. On the plus side, the service remains impeccable and the flights are almost always on time. The crew members could not possibly be more efficient or kinder. The seats have to go, however, and I keep hoping that at some point CP will ultimately come up with a new design.

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I agree with you 100% - they are absolutely dreadful and extremely uncomfortable. I still don't know what possessed CP to implement these wretched seats.

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I've read in another forum that CX is to start retrofitting its J cabin with new seats soon (early next year? ). It seems they are the ones chosen by US Air for their new J cabin.

I've also read the marketing team in charge of the herringbone layout and seats have been fired.

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Good intel!

It seems like CX has relented due to passenger complaints and is planning to refit its Y and J cabins:

http://www.businesstraveller.com/news/cathay-pacific-to-revamp-seating

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Yes, this is good news. I've avoided CX in C Class because of these seats, a cheap narrow version of the VS/NZ seats. I've noticed that it is priced cheaper than other direct C Classes on days I've looked at it from LHR-HKG and beyond.

I've heard the CX Y seats are hard and very tight with the fixed config.

It's a shame because CX soft product is competitive.

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is very pleasing to see that Cathay Pacific have taken on board the genuine concerns of passengers regarding the seats in the long haul business and economy cabins and are putting in place changes that are designed to remedy the shortcomings of the 'cell' and the 'slide' as well as introducing a premium economy cabin. Cathay will take a very substantial financial hit in revamping these cabins after little more than 3 years but they have been leaking loyal Club members at a substantial rate particularly to other oneworld members from the first day the new business class cabin was introduced, myself included. My critical observations regarding the horrible herring bone business class cabin are well know and widely supported from an early post in this forum and a letter published in Business Traveler.Despite this strong (and justified) criticism Cathay responded both publicly and privately in a civilized and constructive way. That they have (I understand ) put in place very substantial changes to the business class product and have solved the problems of the 'slide' seat in economy stands testament that Cathay Pacific continues to be one of the best managed of the larger world airlines and I venture to say probably the best given that their 'soft' product continues as always to be first class. I am looking forward to seeing the new and revamped product having accepted and invitation to 'A Glittering Celebration of Innovation' in a few weeks time which is the release of the cabin changes that were first muted by Bloomberg a couple of weeks ago. More importantly for me is that I can ,I trust, look forward once again to regularly traveling long haul in a pleasant Cathay business class cabin. BA and the others were all good in their way but I have missed traveling regularly Cathay long haul for the past 3 or 4 years and am looking forward to coming home. Well done Cathay for a very mature and sensible correction to what was a huge and costly mistake.

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You must be joking about cx losing customers because of these seats, if you make such a statement you should back it up with facts not personal feelings.Your hopes to have new seats ina few weeks is well off the mark, they wont be rolling these out for some time to come yet as they have not decided which model to use yet.

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The new CX Business Class seats are absolutely dreadful. But I'd still choose them over Economy class seating any day for a flight of such a long duration. I fly regularly between NYC and Hong Kong and back and always use Business Class because the service is excellent, the food is good, and the airport amenities are wonderful. What a pity that CX opted to install these herringbone-style seats which are so boxed in, narrow, claustrophobic, and uncomfortable that one simply wants to screech out HELP, GET ME OUT OF HERE. And yet their First Class seating with only 6 seats in that cabin is absolutely superb and cannot be beat. I have voiced my opinion to the powers that be at CX but it seems to be of little interest to them. Many of the flight crew, on the other hand, have told me that many passengers intensely dislike these seats. And, heaven forbid, if you are traveling with a companion or business associate you cannot even communicate with them unless you get out of your seat because CX has decided that privacy is of paramount importance to its customers. As such each seat is completely isolated from all others. I despise this arrangement and hope that sooner rather than later CX will come up with a new design for its Business Class seats.

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Strange you said you left CX because of these seats yet now you say you fly regular on them - make your mind up please

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Thank you very much for being in agreement with me over the CP business class seats. I wish more people felt as we did and that they could communicate said feelings directly to the CP management just as I have done both by personal letters and e-mails.

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what is cp

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Like duh, CP = Cathay Pacific.

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NO CX = Cathay Pacific ddddddddduuuuuuuuuuh

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proliteboss's post is rather off the mark. It is well know through out the industry that Cathay has leaked substantial business which is why they are making very expensive changes after only 4 years The changes are in- train already and will be rolled out quickly particularly in economy

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specifics ????? no I thought not why cant we have posts based on facts not fiction

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I do believe that both CX and CP are used for Cathay Pacific abbreviations; depends upon one's choice. I think both are equally valid, don't you. I was only joking with the "like, duh" and didn't mean to be flippant.

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proliteboss The changes are real. The launch is 7th December in HK

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To OldChinaHand - from your lips to God's ear. I sure hope you are right. Where to view the new CX Business Class seats or cabin layout?

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Ive been flying on the Qantas business class seat since my bad experience in the Cathay cells and I think they are fabulous. Cathay may be upgrading in the near future but its going to take a a really big effort to get me back.

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Its a laugh a minute on here, Qantas Biz class is not a patch on CX for service, comfort & price, all get thats not charged for is grumpy old flight attendants who think the world owes them a living

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No Good, Cramped , Fly Singapore Airline.

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yes agree Singapore is best however i fly MEL - HK often so can only choose between QF and CX. Much prefer the Skybed on QF to the coffins on CX. Whilst I agree that service can be better on CX than most airlines in the world.....nothing will get me onto it until they change the seats . I also think QF have come a long way with service and food and beverage.

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chinaboy Cathay looks to be doing a very good job of keeping the changes well under wraps with very few comments and nothing visual to be found. From what little there is it looks to me like an upgrade of the 'slide' in economy to fix the lumber support and knee jamming problem for taller pax -introduction of a super economy cabin and substantial refit to the business class cabin but as I understand not on 747s

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proliteboss...sorry but Qantas business class product is superb and far exceeds that of Cathay. The seating, cabin layout and catering are all top notch. My one issue is that they lack consistency and have the slides on other aircraft. The crew are a bit familiar but it is at least natural.

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I'm with you Binman. Have nothing but praise for Qantas international business. I find them friendly, relaxed, and have very tasty food. I usually use QF to Hong Kong, and have never had a dud flight. Two months ago I decided to give Cathay a try and leave from Brisbane instead of Sydney. I tell you Prolite, here's a statistic -wild horses wouldn't get me back onto CX while they have those horse stalls. On the A330 they use from Brisbane, not only do you have a very close wall either side, you also face one. There was no room whatsover to put anything, my colleague couldn't sit on the pathetic little footstoolette, so we bellowed over the wall, couldn't even open the ruddy paper. Add that to a grumpy crew, completely inedible meals (lunch went back untouched) and my pre-arrival snack was three thin slices of pineapple with a date (the vege option). The seat power was on the fritz, but I couldn't even work on my computer with a notepad open, as there was NO ROOM, and the table was at a wonky, saggy slant. The horse stall was also very scuffed and frayed. As far as I am concerned, the seat is a mega dud, and I ain't going back any time soon. The crew never went near the toilets which were decidedly 3rd world after 7 hours.

As a coda, it was my (Swiss) colleague's first ever flight on CX, and even this ultra polite gentleman said to me as we got off, "I would rather you don't book them again"

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Here's our news piece on the launch of Cathay's new business class seat, which we'll be updating with further details and images as they become available.

http://www.businesstraveller.com/asia-pacific/news/no-premium-economy-for-cathay-a-yet

And for those who wish to view it on our sister Asia-Pacific site:

http://asia.businesstraveller.com/asia-pacific/news/no-premium-economy-for-cathay-a-yet

We've created a new topic thread for discussion of this latest seat at:

http://www.businesstraveller.com/discussion/topic/Cathay-Pacific-unveils-new-business-class-seat

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I was fortunate today to be able to preview the new business class seat that will installed progressively from March 2011

It is in my view Cathay have done a spectacularly good job and this seat more than addresses all of the myriad of failings of the 'coffin'

This seat at first pass looks to be the biggest advance in business class since the BA seat was introduced 7 (?) years ago and will set the standard for a few years

Wide and off -set (perhaps 40 degrees towards window) and forward facing for middle seats. The cabin is 1-2-1 in 777 aircraft.

Fully lie-flat bed- heaps of personal space and good storage. Clever design so that there is room to use both computer and food tray. In the lie flat position the seat widens with a fold up flap that allows sleeping on ones side

The middle seats move forward (as in a car seat) to allow passengers travelling together to see one another and easily communicate. otherwise there is a permanent divider in place

Finally simple seat controls that echo the Mercedes Benz controls....very easy to use. Large TV and the latest in in-seat power with i-Pod etc being able to feed through to the noise cancelling headphones

A very good product that others will struggle to beat for some years

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