A preview of the new World Traveller and World Traveller Plus cabins, to be fitted on the new Boeing 777-300 aircraft is now on ba.com

https://www.britishairways.com/travel/new-world-traveller/public/en_gb

https://www.britishairways.com/travel/new-world-traveller-plus/public/en_gb

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Looks pretty slick.

I'm not a fan of the headrests though. I like the current WT and WTP style that can either be folded down (WT) or folded towards the head (WTP), which gives one something to rest ones head against, sooner than waking up with a stiff neck because your head has been at a funny angle for a few hours.

Colour scheme looks great and is a nice continuation of the new F and current CW product.

I'm booked up for a WT run to Dubai in Jan, so here's hoping!

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I agree, I look forward to trying out the new seats in the new year. I hope it is matched with improved catering on WT+. I would have thought a little more publicity could be generated for this, but I guess it is a slow roll-out given it starts on the 777-300s Good Luck BA.

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This is what i call premium economy

http://www.airnewzealand.co.uk/premium-economy-spaceseat

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I am certain the advent of mixed fleet will help improve customer service, without BASSA's controlling interference.

These new seats are great, very comfy and I especially like the USB connectivity and power points at every seat.

The WT+ screens are exactly the same size as Club World, and the cabin looks very contemporary and spacious indeed.

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The two new cabins certainly seem in keeping with new club and first giving a very 'connected' feel to all of the cabins.

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VintageKrug....when the mixed fleet arrive i would expect them to get young, tired, in experienced people who will be "looking after" your safety and comfort while trying to survive on a low wage with little sleep and no care for the customer.

As a BA crew member i find your comment very blinkered....but then you usually are.

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Mixed fleet will re-invigorate BA's crew ranks.

It is certainly not recruiting "inexperienced" people. From my reading of the criteria, all recruits would have to already have some sort of professional experience; most of the early recruits will already have Cabin Crew experience:

http://www.beoutstanding.co.uk/

You keep stating that these will be low paid roles but they are still market rate. Better than market rate salaries in many cases. Somewhere between £14k-£18k per annum.

The base pay plus partially tax free flying payments are not abnormally low for a first jobber, and with all the benefits of travelling the world and working with like minded colleagues, it doesn't seem a bad offer to me - and the oversubscribed applications bear this out.

Indeed some of the Cabin Manager positions are apparently offering £25k base pay salaries (excluding flight pay) which is hardly low paid. And before you rubbish that number, here is the evidence for that salary:

www.aviationjobsearch.com/jobs/cabin_crew/london_heathrow_airport/customer_service_manager_mixed_fleet_ba_-67678.html?search_no=1

I don't see any connection between offering good service and the wage you are paid. Proper training and proper performance management (never properly permitted under the BASSAmentalist regime) will weed out exactly those bad apples who think in that outdated way.

And proper performance related incentives may well be possible [without interference from BASSA who refused their members the option of being awarded shares in the company or performance related pay and actually proposed a temporary, repayable pay CUT for their members when negotiations with BA began] which could in due course add to base pay.

I fail also to see the connection between "young" crew and "tired" crew. Which is it?

I for one am looking forward to flying Mixed Fleet routes after November, though as yet these seem to be confined mostly to shorthaul initially, with those longer haul routes coming online once more on the job experience is gained:

Prague, St Petersburg, Pisa, Denver, Budapest, Nairobi.

Looking forward to more of these WT+ and WT cabins on the new 777-300ERs as they are delivered:

www.britishairways.com/travel/new-world-traveller-plus/public/en_gb

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In the meantime BA will have old WT/WT+ on most aircraft including all 747's. The experience is going to be a bag of liquorish all sorts with some peoples expectations met and some rather disappointed.

As for VK banging on about mixed fleet..... this thread is about the new PRODUCT being introduced. It has NO bearing on the customer service one can expect from the crew be it current fleets or not. Why is it you have to spoil a discussion by brining up BASSA at all times. Your replies are becoming tiresome to read and to be fair I skip most of them. Incidentally, how do you know the seats are comfortable? Have you tested them? I for one would like to know how as they have not been rolled out yet and the new 777 is due in service this week.

You may be a proud and dedicated mouth piece for Willie Walsh, but lets keep to the subject matter shall we?

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Although VintageKrug is more than capable of fighting his/her own battles, it is worth noting that (I am 99.9% sure) mixed fleet was first mentioned by another poster earlier in the thread (the post before VintageKrug's mention of it)...although this has now dissapeared.

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Indeed, it was not me who brought up mixed fleet; there was a post (now deleted) which mentioned concerns about the service/soft product not being up to scratch.

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So you are an employee of BA?

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Nope.

I am not nor ever have been in any way connected with British Airways or the travel industry more generally except as a shareholder and Gold Card holder (as well as top tier with Star and Skyteam (the latter comped)).

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So you went to Cardiff to check out the new seats? You are truly a dedicated BA customer I must say. I am surprised you are not rewarded with a prem card.

Kudos to your determined dedication to an airline which you only have share's in and a gold card.

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The new cabins look very stylish, particularly WT+. I'll await photos of the cabin in BT's upcoming trip report(s) before making a final judgement although I do believe BA could come close to owning the best looking economy product in the sky.

Nevertheless I hope we see an overhaul of other service elements. I believe further differentiation between the WT & WT+ meal service would enhance the appeal of premium economy. An upgrade to WT catering would also be welcomed. For now, I like what I see!

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well you do seem to know so much vintagekrug....or maybe not.

back to the seats....have sat in the wt plus seats and i can say they are a great improvment on what we/BA have and yes i believe a different meal service is in order in that cabin but with things as they are its gonna be a long way of...or fly the new mixed fleet...the girls have hats dont you know!!

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Having seen more photos the new cabins do look good and it will be good to have a consistent style running through all four cabins. Though premium economy remains firmly WT+, not CW-.

I agree the meal service needs improvement. As does the IFE, which needs richer content. It would be a great pity if the new products were let down by other problems that are very easy to fix

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My understanding is that these new B777-300ER aircraft, fitted with the THALES In-Flight Entertainment system offer increased programming as well as larger screens, improved Graphical User Interface and, of course, the ability to connect a media player to use the provided screen to display your own content.

It'll be interesting to see how the whole IFE story plays-out in coming years though; the proliferation of iPods, iPads and Laptops and our increasing expectations of choice and personalisation could very well render this expensive, heavy, sensitive and heat-generating equipment completely obsolete in a relatively short space of time.

Already, it's notably obvious that on overnight Eastbound Transatlantics in Business and First Class cabins, whole swathes of passengers never turn it on as they prefer to sleep.

I'm looking forward to trying out the BA product in-flight, and comparing it to my upcoming Cathay Economy flight which I think is the only truly innovative Y product at the moment - though one which seems to garner many less than favourable comments. We'll see.

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"Already, it's notably obvious that on overnight Eastbound Transatlantics in Business and First Class cabins, whole swathes of passengers never turn it on as they prefer to sleep."

Not just the US flights, I fly to the middle east regularly and the same thing is obvious.

Personally, I can't remember the last time I used the IFE on BA, although I do remember watching a movie on Jet just over a year ago - normally I am too tired to sit up or too busy.

Your comments about obselecence are interesting, as I already carry a 4.5" screen MP4 player with me, loaded with about 40 movies; it has a battery life of just over two movies and weighs 120 grams.

I'm far more likely to use this on a flight, as I can prop it next to me when laying flat and rest properly whilst watching (and probably drift off to sleep, too.)

I'm going to JNB on Saturday and will no doubt watch at least one movie.

It is good to have a USB connection to charge it, but even on a 10 hour flight, I'm unlikely to watch more than 2 movies :-)

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Kellner:

In a reply to VK, you said: "So you went to Cardiff to check out the new seats? You are truly a dedicated BA customer I must say."

I don't understand this. If you are a frequent flier, perhaps even enjoy flying, it makes perfect sense to attend such an event if you get an invitation.

I am myself an EB and EC Gold card holder, and if I got such an invitation from one of the airlines I regularly use, I would definitely attend, be it BA or SK.

This is about learning what is happening to a place you spend a lot of time.

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It wouldn't neccesarily have to be in Cardiff. I seem to remember recieving an invitation to a launch/preview event in London somewhere when the New Club World seat was unveiled a few years ago.

I couldn't attend as, suprise suprise, I was travelling!

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If its not 180 degree flat and no one sat next to me I dont use it

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WT+ pretty to look at but hard product already seems dated spec wise - Not hard-shell like on Air France or JAL, not cradle like Eva, not luxe-on-a-budget (incl better soft product) like Virgin. So a bit of an update, rather than an upgrade. BA's partner Qantas's premium economy by sounds of it also already out-specs this one.

Coy about a few things too - any increase in individual space over old WT+? Because really, that's what you're paying for - space. Any legrest/footrest (assume there is one but not mentioned in the blurb)? Any comfort-amenities (better blanket, simple amenity kit)?

Also on the stormy horizon, although there's no hint of Virgin's new econo+ product yet (promised but not yet revealed), it wouldn't surprise me if it came in a similar form to ANZ's proposed new product now scheduled for 2011.

As I pay for flights out my own pocket and figuring on comfort being a deciding factor - looking at this right now I'd still choose one of the others over BA, as I've already done the last four times.

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I'am surprise and also questioning how so many people are quick to judge a product just by seeing a picture? We had ne report from people that have used the product since it has entered service 2 days ago, so give it a chance. Any chance for the Euromillion lottery number for tomorow? :o)

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LHRtraveller

With the greatest of respect, the people posting on this thread do know what they are looking at and are in a pretty good position to make the comments they make.

I tend to agree with gorpalm's view and it strikes me that BA have produced a product that is likely to be a competent update, rather than a stellar product.

Having said that, as I have said before, I believe that the pricing of WTP makes it good value for money and it is a sound, if basic, product.

However, if you look at the innovation in Club World, WTP is nowhere near such an exciting product (I use WTp for leisure and CW for business.)

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Actually, I do tend to agree with both LHRtraveller, and you DisgustedofSwieqi .

On the one hand, it's simply not credible to make judgments without having tried the product at first hand - as Business Traveller has indicated that they'll be doing for themselves this weekend.

On the other, it's quite true to say that the World Traveller Plus seat is far from revolutionary and that it suits its price point above World Traveller Economy.

The hard-shell concepts employed by Air France and JAL in their Premium Economy cabins, and in a differing form by Cathay in their Economy cabin, are not at all universally-liked. Different they may be, but that does not in itself guarantee commercial success or passenger popularity.

I look forward to trying Cathay's shortly myself.

gorpalm refereces EVA, which is such a niche carrier as to be irrelevant from a British Airways, Air France, Virgin, Qantas etc., etc., competition point of view, and operates to completely different strictures compared to those and many other carriers.

The new British Airways World Traveller Plus seat is the Qantas Premium Economy seat, with just two principal differences: the first is that the legrest is deleted in favour of a footrest mounted to the seat in front, and the second is that the TV is seat-back rather than armrest mounted. Oh, and a third: BA have specified a quite significantly upgraded headrest.

We each may have differing views on the relative merits of the legrests and footrests, seat back and armrest TVs, but if British Airways has been listening to what customers here and elsewhere have been saying for years, it's that legrests in WTP are useless with 38" seat pitch. Passengers have said exactly the same thing about the Qantas Premium Economy ones.

If they've also been listening to what passengers report on web fora about armrest TVs in sub 60" pitch environments, then they'll also have learnt that passengers dislike them as they make access and egress from window and centre seats significantly more difficult, and the size of the screen is ultimately compromised by the available stowage space.

The point therefore is therefore that, potentially, we should be careful what we wish for - at least in public. The web has ears.

gorpalm also wonders about increased personal space and amenities in World Traveller Plus. BA have confirmed that the pitch remains 38", but the use of these slimmer Recaro seats will increase the effective legroom.

Other sites, including FlyerTalk, are carrying photographs of the new blankets and pillows, which are apparently being introduced fleet-wide. Amenity kits appear to be remaining as-is, which is to say functional rather than value-adding. In practice though, they're still more fulsome than Singapore's Business Class offerings, just in a less fancy packet.

Finally, there's also mention once again of the as-yet untried (and barely-seen) Air New Zealand Premium Economy product. The images are undoubtedly striking, if not for the overall colour pallette then for the unusual off-setting of the seats themselves. Just look at those pictures again though, for a moment:

Where are the NZ PE legrests? There aren't any; they've decided to offer a beanbag which has been nicknamed 'Otto' (short for Ottoman, good for PR, yet to be proven).

Where are the TVs? We've not yet seen any shots of the backs of the seat pods, but the design of the armrests doesn't seem to afford any capacity for screens to be stowed with in them. Do we assume, therefore, that the screens are seat-back? If so, given the oblique angle of the seats, does this mean that the watching of the screens will necessitate a constant sideways glance?

All very interesting, but if I was setting up my own global airline, from scratch, with my own money and I used research & intelligence, profiling, social media, web fora and the myriad other ways of listening to my potential customers' demands and needs, I think it would be impossible to immediately identify the benchmark seating product in any longhaul travel class. In particular, it could be quite difficult working out who was giving me an opinion on something that they have never experienced and have no intention of ever doing so, and those who are day-in-day-out regular users of the product(s).

If my new airline was to have the route network, fleet size and cabin choices of BA, with Premium Economy offered on every one of its longhaul aircraft, then why would EVA's product or Air NZ's product be even vaguely relevant to my competitive positioning between London and Cairo, London and Buenos Aires, London and Vancouver or London and Beijing?

In this context, if we want to make World Traveller Plus more notable then we should probably be looking instead for the soft product enhancements that are often discussed. Priority check-in in London (mostly a PR stunt anyway, since so many pre-print BPs at home, office or self-service machine), a pre-boarding drink, upgraded catering etc., etc.

The question is, would we pay for it? To really enhance the on-board service would probably, and I hesitate to say this, require an additional crew member. Divide that cost between 38 seats and that's probably £20 per passenger with 100% load. Then add the cost of the catering itself, perhaps an extra £10 or £15 (incl drink). At that point, you're easily moving the 'cost to upgrade' from £125 towards £175, from £250 for a couple to £350.

Those of us who fly BA regularly will be well-versed with the little blue button that usually appears to offer us a WTP upgrade. If the airline's managing things well, then they'll know precisely what they can and can't charge - brutally speaking what the passenger will and will not stand.

If everything that they're hearing, from Sydney to San Francisco and Calgary to Cairo is: legrests are useless, armrest TVs are too small and get in the way, cocoon seats are too firm & restrict legroom, and I won't pay more than £x for the privelege because a) I'm travelling as a couple/family, b) there's a recession on, c) I'm a Silver card holder so I can check in at a Club desk, use the lounge and board at leisure anyway, and I'm not paying more just so that others can too, d) if I did then it's starting to get towards BA's or others' Business Class fares - then I'd speculate that you're going to end up with a product tailored very closely to customer needs and one that probably looks very similar to that which has just been fitted to G-STBA.

Only time will tell whether the customers were right.....

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Kudos to the BT team, who similar to their breaking story on the New First cabin earlier this year, appear to have stolen a march on their rivals in the first full scale WT & WT+ pictures.

http://www.businesstraveller.com/news/ba-unveils-new-economy-and-premium-economy-seating

Interesting that there is a comment that hot towels will be in WT+!

Excellent article Tom - well done to the BT team.

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Many thanks for the kind words, JordanD.

We've just posted some new images from today's Mumbai flight, onboard the B777-300ER.

http://www.businesstraveller.com/news/the-big-picture-ba-new-economy-and-premium-econ

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"BA's B777 or B747 fleet will not be retrofitted, but instead will be "refreshed"

So does this mean that no existing aircraft will get the new WT or WT+? What does "refreshed" mean? New cushions and blankets :-)

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I've altered the wording to make it a little clearer (I hope).

The majority of the B777-200 fleet, and the whole of the B747 fleet will not be getting either the new WT or WT+.

Refreshed means new cushions and blankets, yes.

Meanwhile BA will work with Rockwell Collins which will still be the IFE system on the remaining long haul fleet to work on improvements to that system.

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Thanks for the clarification. So the 747 fleet will fall behind?. What is the retirement date for the existing 747s. I thought I read somewhere there was 10 years left in some of these planes, so that's a long time to continue with a 1990s product esp on some of the premium routes these a/c fly?

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I think that's right. I don;t know that there is a firm retirement date, but I'll pose that question at the press conference tomorrow and get back to you.

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And here's our verdict of the new seating, following a flight on the B777-300ER aircraft:

http://www.businesstraveller.com/verdict-world-traveller-and-world-traveller-plus

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HampshireUK

I asked WW about the retirement date for the B747 fleet.

He said there is no firm date for it to begin. He said the current average age of the B747s is 18 years and "Typically they would be retired in their mid-twenties". He also told me that originally the first batch of B787 aircraft were intended to replace the B767 fleet, but BA has decided to keep the B767 fleet beyond that date (ie: the introduction of the B787s) and said they would be looking at refreshing the B767s, although the CW seat wouldn't be going on because it is not certified for those aircraft.

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To be clear. the longhaul 767s do have "New Club World" fully flat beds, just not the very latest version (the white plastic shelled "Next Generation New Club World").

All the longhaul 767 fleet also have AVOD fitted.

The shorthaul 767 fleet is in desperate need of an internal refurb, and I would hope that WW's comments counted for the shorthaul fleet as well as longhaul.

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Yes, sorry for not being clearer - three babies in the CW cabin last night.

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I don't understand how someone can define something as 'new' when its 10 years old..... indeed 767's are fitted with AVOD and BA's first generation lie flat seats.....but they are hardly 'new'.....

It is a shame that the rest of the fleet is not getting the new WT/WT+ seats and especially as they're going to be around for a while.....

I am also pleased BA did not fit 10 abreast seating on the 777 but remember they did back in the 90's when a few BA aircraft operated under AML. I guess passenger satisfaction levels weren't as high compared to the 9 abreast seating arrangement..........

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I posted this comment at the bottom of the WT/WT+ review, but is it right to assume that the new cabins will come as standard on all the new 787s and A380s?

(On that note, would it be right to assume A380s as 4-class aircraft, and 787s as a mixture of 3 and 4-class aircraft?)

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Hello, that's certainly what I've been told - that this new product will be on future deliveries, including the B77-300ER and B787 and A380.

That said, I don't think a final decision has been made on the config of the A380 (or possibly the B787). I imagine it will be four classes, but they are still talking about where those classes will be on each deck.

And the IFE system will have added functionality with each new release, and so will differ from that which has just been unveiled on the B777-300ER.

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Indeed kellner, they are not "new" but the Project Dusk seats were always referred to as "New Club World" and introduced circa 2000.

Despite not being "new" the current seats in the 767 do feature some significant redesigns from the original "New Club World" beds, with new dividing screens, softer foams and different seat coverings from the very original "New Club World" seats.

And of course every seat is removed from the aircraft and thoroughly refurbished every 18-24 months.

But you are quite right they are different from the 2006 launched Next Gen Club World seats, which themselves have had several iterations of the footrest and also now have some metal inner workings to stop the "springboard effect" many of us noticed in the very first Next Gen beds.

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I have been booked by my company into WT+ on a short business trip to Chicago in June. Looking at the seat plans it seems that the outbound 777 flight has the new seats fitted but it is an older version coming back.

I hope to upgrade to Club using BA miles for the return night flight but has anyone flown in the new WT+ cabin and is it worth experiencing?

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FlightDoctor - all being well, I will be experiencing the WT+ cabin on the new 777-300ER next Friday, will report back on here my thoughts.

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I think you'll like it, though it's still very much a Premium Economy offering, rather than a business class "lite".

I would be intrigued if you could have a go at using the USB ports, perhaps playing a movie from your iPhone on the fixed screen? Haven't really heard of anyone using this feature.

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Looking at the seat plan on ba.com it now seems to be the old WT+ fit for my trip to Chicago in May. I'm therefore not so enthused about trying the product out.

My booking was made by my company travel agent - I'd like to upgrade to CW using miles but it's greyed out. Does anyone know whether I can upgrade using miles at check in (I know Virgin allows this).

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