I've just done a quick return to Chicago, and managed to find myself on board BA's new First Class cabin both ways, with the outbound being the inaugural flight for BA's new First Suite.

The wow factor of the cabin is great - it is sleek, contemporary, refined, rich, elegant yet simple and understated. The windows have electronic blinds that make the cabin look exclusive, like a private jet in style (one fellow passenger referred to them as 'Orient Express' in style). The suites are tall and private, and I very much like the use of the three different coloured leathers (navy blue, tan and cream) - the hand stitching is superb, akin to an Aston Martin or Bentley. Old First feels more like a comfortable old Jaguar car.

There is 55% more seating space, which enhances the experience, especially when sleeping - I found much more room in the shoulder area, and more seat width overall, making it possible to sleep on back, side or front comfortably. Indeed, passengers on the return slept like babies (even in a cabin I found to be a bit warm). The buddy seat is very wide, too - I tried it for a while and it was very comfortable, perhaps double the width of the current buddy seat. The base of this seat pulls forward and down, giving you a footrest which will suit customers of any height.

The new suites makes the centre suites on the 777 very attractive as they have work and dining space that is not present in current seating. The squared footprint of the centre suites makes them very much akin to other F products in the market.

The large video screens are perfect viewing size (15 inch screen, I believe), and the split screen map enhancement is more than welcome (you press MAP on the bottom of the screen, the screen splits and the moving map image comes up on the left - nifty for those of us who like to know where we are and how long we have left to fly). I was able to plug my iPod in and watch things I had downloaded. The mood lighting works well (and compared to the glare of other cabins), and sets a relaxed and comforting tone, especially during night boarding and for morning wake-up. Each seat has a personal cupboard, with enough room to hang trousers, a jacket and there are some mesh pockets which are ideal for books, newspapers, iPods, eyeglasses or other necessities. The mesh is a great idea as you can instantly see if you've left something in a pocket. At the bottom is a shoe-cupboard, which lit up when the door opened, ensuring you didn't leave anything behind when departing. Nice touch.

Like BA's Club World cabin, the new First cabin is a "clear floor" cabin - this is due to decompression vents which must be clear for take-off and landing. Thus, when you board, the cabin looks clean and neat (no duvets, headsets, etc. cluttering up the buddy seats). All baggage must be stowed in the overhead bins, so the cupboards serve as an ideal solution to keep papers or other essentials to hand.

There is ample room to work, with a table that folds out with a blue leather writing pad (which also nicely secures a laptop and keeps it from sliding whilst typing), and then the table opens up for eating (or working) to double in size. It is very sturdy, and more than ample to work and eat at the same time, plus there is a side table for additional space. Three lights - a small shaded lamp, a focus ceiling light and a wider wash light provide additional personal lighting for working or eating. They did not affect the quality of the video screen at all.

I know some people may have expected private suites a la Singapore Airlines and Emirates. Personally, I found the BA suites to be private enough, whilst offering a sense of cabin space and openness that is refreshing. The claustrophobic feeling one can have on the closed-door suites can be intensely irritating, especially on long day-flights. The luxe of the BA First Suite, combined with the contemporary feel of BA new First cabin is a positive and welcome step change that will continue BA's role as a top premium carrier.

The crew showed me their new steam ovens which had been fitted on board - they were super - my "catch of the day" - a seabass, was moist, perfectly cooked, with steamed veggies that were bright and vibrant. Even the bread rolls were good - moist inside, crisp crust and they didn't dry out in the cabin air in less than 10 seconds. A new espresso machine produced rather delicious coffee.

Crews in both directions were excellent, they were excited and enthusiastic about the new product and were eager to spread the word to their colleagues and friends. They were only advised of the new seat being on their flight at their briefing, I understand, but all First crew have had premium training, so service was not any different to old-First on-board service. Perhaps food and beverage will get an upgrade, too, to match this super new product.

Overall verdict: A winning proposition from BA - it will bode them well for the next few years, and will certainly win business - I'm be more than happy to pay for this First product as it is markedly better than Club World, and can be an ideal tool for business, or a welcome bit of luxury for a much-deserved break.

I'm not a frequent poster on these forums, nor am I employed by British Airways (and never have been). I'm a Canary Wharf based consultant who travels frequently for work and for leisure. As this product is so new, I felt it would be a welcome addition to the BT pages.

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Lovely review of www.ba.com/first

How exciting to be on the inaugural flight!

Have they renovated the loos, as well?

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Just a quick note to posters in general - occasionally the forum software does not recognise paragraph breaks in posts (this can happen if posts have been pasted in from Word documents). However you can go back into your post and edit once it has been published if you so wish.

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The lavatories have been refreshed, so they are clean and bright, but they have not been changed - they are still in the same location and same size... sorry about the paragraph issue - I did cut and paste this from my laptop...

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Any photos?

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Thanks Andrew !

Your report sounds promising and positive; it doesn't differ from my assumption of demure and down-to-earth. It really shows my picture of the new F class. Hope to try the new product myself and get lucky to have the new product in my next BA flight.

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Here are the official pics:

www.flickr.com/photos/tipsfortravellers/4350369407/in/photostream/

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Is the new F cabin fixed on the Chicago route ? .. and if so, which one ?

Cheers

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Vintage Krug, what exactly is your job at BA? I find your pro BA posts quite irritating.

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SimlpleDXB, what is irritating in VK's comment?

AndrewFlyer, thank you for your trip report. I do find it informative it will help my future travel decision.

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Simple is as simple does.

I have never worked for BA.

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VK works for BT, but promotes all BA spin for them through here.

It is rather laborious & desperate that BA need this, & a rather dodgy arrangement for BT to condone it or facilitate it, probably breaching press regulations & their independence...

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i would have thought that BA should be investing in updating their superb club world product. here is a product that beats most first class products in terms of comfort. Especially in night flights, if your are on a flat bed and asleep, does it really matter whether you are in first or club world. The food in First is magnificant, but in club world it is still supeb. The biggest joke about First though is the number of free upgrades - you can always tell who has been upgraded beacuse they are not handed menus, they are given the choice of the left overs. BA get a lot of stick, but th eonly critisism in this piece is that First is unecerssary when club world is available. Well done BA on club world, dont waste you money trying to impress staff of other airlines with free upgrades.

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Hi eveyone !

Mark-- frequent users here now what you have commented. I won't get thoroughly about it. They are straightforward. Just be aware that BT ( and who ever this person is ) could delete your comment as it feels when it is offending for VK. Unfortunately the "bias taste" regarding VK and BT as well as BA won't just get off ! How come ?

Coming back to Martyn's comment---you are right--BA's C product is a good one. Well, they invested in enhancing the C product ( see BA's pages over the new improved C cabin ). It is interesting to read--does it matters if you fly first or club world? Well, it does matter, if you pay your F ticket and not been upgraded or sponsored. As I have mentioned before--it is nice to experience upgrades---but being treated as obviously as an "Upgrader" in F cabin and other pax can obviously see it--is in my opinion a bad service quality. NO F pax should be treated differently than the others in the same cabin. Not handing out menus and receiving only the rest of the paying pax--is in my eyes a dismal and insulting. It may be BA's policy and surely a priority for paying pax. But I personally would not take such kind of upgrades where I only get the left overs and the crews and/or the situation actually give me the feeling of being "tolerated" and apparently taking advantage of something which I am not entitled of. Such is undignified ! I would rather decline an upgrade in such circumstances and sit in club world-- receive fairly a menu and a proper choice of the meals. And most of all--not to have the feelings of gratefulness on the side of the airlines for being bumped on a better class --but the dignity of paying your own ticket and therefore being objective to situations on board which you don't like and especially those cutting your rights as a paying pax.

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I've been upgraded to First on several occasions with BA, and the cabin was full every time. Other than being seated in rows 3, 4 or 5, as opposed to 1 or 2, I'm not aware of the service levels being any different to those that I've enjoyed when I have been booked from the outset into that cabin.

I certainly received menus and all other amenities and, though I appreciate that I may have been lucky then (or amnesial now), I'm sure that I also enjoyed my first choices from the dishes offered on each occasion.

No matter, I do agree that one can enjoy a good sleep in many of the horizontal business class beds that are flying around these days, including Club World but, for me, the additional space, the higher ratio of crew to passengers and the generally quieter cabin all add up to a significant enough differentiator for me to value First.

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I agree with continentalclub. I have booked and been up graded into first on a number of carriers and I have never experience a different level of service as part of an up grade.

I personally think the new BA First looks smart and I'm looking forward to my first flight with the new cabin.

First still has a place with premium carriers even though you can on most carriers these day have a fully flat bed business bed. Its about choice and it gives airlines an opportunity to treat those true frequent flyers.

On a different note could BT please remove any posts on these forums that are used to personally attack others, I and most other posters on here really don't want to read them

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MartynSinclair: I have had the pleasure to be upgraded to First, and I did in no way experience that I was given a different level of service.

I don't know what it is with some of you guys and this constant harrasment to BA and the staff there. Perhaps you have to get out try some other stuff, to see how bad and rude it can possibly be.

At any rate, criticizing companies and company policy is one thing, staff is a bad target.

Have you considered that those you attack cannot defend themselves? Is that fair? Next time you complain, take into consideration this fact, imagine it was yourself being attacked. Try be a bit humble and realize that there may be more to a story than what you know.

BA is not my natural choice, geographical. But they have been for the last years. This is because they have competitive prices, they have the schedules, a fine product and not at least; I think I get great service. This is worth a couple of hours in the air for me.

Why, if you are so displeased, why don't you just let your feet do what your mouth is running over with. Travel with another airline. that hurts BA. Ignorant impolite ranting doesn't hurt them, in fact most of this outburst is so violent that it will not be taken serious.

VK may be exaggerating a bit in supporting BA, but I don't consider him affiliated with BA. I used myself to be very found of SK and used any occassion to mention them. I myself have more often than not found his contributions informative. Granted, I have thought to myself sometimes "this is a bit repetitive", but then, what harm does it do? I as well as anyone else can just skim through the post, even skip it, and go to the next. You know, you don't have to read everything.

I think this forum should be to share experiences, not to rant off. The subtle, but essential difference of the two being that the former is informative as the latter at best is entertaining.

For those of you that go way and beyond in characerizing other people and companies, you should know that this behavior is in fact turning back on to you. Your competence, experience and respect drop in the eyes of others. Just think about the bully in the school yard, he might win the fights, but he was no more liked for it, rather the opposite.

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I agree with wanula1 - Any personal attacks should be removed from the forum.

May I also suggest that contributors be required to declare their interest if discussing an organisation to which they are affiliated in any way.

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A number of points here.

Firstly, my post suggesting that VK's posts irritated me was not necessarily a comment directed just at this thread, but rather the proliferation of posts made by VK across the whole of the BT forum which all read shamelessly like BA press pieces rather than expressions of opinion, which is what I thought forums like these were more about.

Secondly, given this is a forum on business travel, one assumes that I like everyone else has the right to express an opinion, and I did just that. For anyone who is truly a frequent flyer (and not someone who just works for / is sponsored by BA / only travels with BA and still has romantic notions about the BOAC days), VK's pieces are as flimsy as the now second rate service and product (both on the ground and in the air) that BA offer. Most if not all Asian carriers offer a far superior travel experience, and often for a fraction of the price.

Thirdly, call me crazy but I too still have a romantic notion of BA being 'the World's favourite airline', but new first class or not, they are just not that good. And anyone having the pleasure of flying in the first suites on SQ / EY / EK etc will read the details of BA's new first product comfortable in the knowledge that they still have no reason to switch their choice of carrier.

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SimpleDXB: My comment on the attacks on VK was on a general basis, not for this thread in particular. As for the right to express an opinion, I do absolutely agree with you, the point is just how one express the opinion.

SK doesn't have, and to my knowledge never have had a First product.

But their Biz class did in its time revolutionize biz travelling.

I agree that middle east and asian carriers have a First product superior to what is found in Europe and certainly the US. I believe this to be a cultural phenomena. In the western hemisphere, such thing as First is kind of old fashion, "We're all equal". You don't find the same attitude in ME/Asia.

Personally I would never purchase a First, I can do pts upgrades, but I don't see it is worth, not for me, nor my company to pay a lot of money to be a "star".

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Roadking - try googling "Singapore Airlines First Class Suites". Their suite product notwithstanding, they also carry the first class product on most of their older fleets, admittedly not suites, but the service and quality of fare offered on board (e.g. my last flight I had a choice of Dom or Krug). And as for the breast warmed pen.... ;-)

BTW, entirely agree with your comment re first often not being worth the additional over J (assuming a flat bed J class product of course!).

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Ah, you mean SQ. Ok, I thought you were talking of Scandinavian Airlines (SK).

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My apologies indeed - I was referring to SQ! I will edit the post...

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In looking at the photo of the new First seats, I think they do not represent a substantial improvement, apart from the little more space on the upper part of the seat. New colours and a more modern cabin are good, but what about the very moody entertainment system? Has it got better? Are the new toilets larger? (Incidentally, they are much smaller than those of Economy in Emirates). I assume the cabin is as cramped as before. I used to like seat 3A on a 747 until a gentlement with very smelly toes on a JNB-LHR flight removed his socks and gave me the most annoying flight of my life. If one is horizontal in 3A the toes of the person opposite are literally less that half a metre away. I find the question of personal space a big problem with the BA First layout. I suppose the alternative is to removed some seats as other airlines have done but BA opted for the same albeit a bit spruced up.

As for the the shameless partiality of VK's entries towards BA, I agree is it not healthy in this forum that he derides entries which are not favourable to BA, as was the case with me when I started a thread on BA upgrading after boarding. He should try to moderate his entries as he still is a valuable source of information (although only on BA).

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RoadKing writes: "SK doesn't have and to my knowledge never have had a First Product."

SK operated First class on long-haul flights until 1988. It was the first of the mainstream European carriers to drop first class in favour of an improved business class.

Scandinavians are egalitarian (even government ministers in those days would book business class for their work trips) and with business class improving year on year it meant first class became redundant.

Very few, if any, foreign long-haul carriers serving the likes of Coepnhagen, Oslo and Stockholm will provide a first class cabin.

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LondonCity is correct, SK did have a First Class product. Actually, they abolished this with introduction of the B767-300s in 1989. SK was once the leader in innovation. In 1985, they introduced “EuroClass” as an alternative to First Class in Europe. I have one SK Purser whom I have met 3-4 times on MD-80s who has worked for 32 years in the cabin. On a late night flight from LHR to ARN with a quiet business cabin, he took the time to narrate the European first class service of the late 70s, early 80s... Wish I could have tested this....

A quick Google search on SAS First Class yielded an interesting article from The NY Times in 1993. Interesting perspective to today’s discussion about First Class survival with many carriers. This seems to be a recessionary discussion...

http://www.nytimes.com/1993/02/05/style/05iht-freq.html?pagewanted=2

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Having read the recent responses, i would like to clarify a couple of things.

1. BA and readers should not take any of my comments as negative. BY FAR, British Airways have the best busienss class seat of all airlines. The product replicates First Class accomdation - my point is that with a product so good, why on earth is their a need for a First Class revamp, because whether you are unconcious in First or Business, does it really make a difference. The new suites appearing on airlines, such as SQ are fabulous beyond imagination. But in 2010, how on earth can anyone flying on business, justify the cost justify the need for so much space. £7000 ++ for a full fare first class suite is a disgraceful waste of budgets, when business class does the job. Maybe a business section of busienss class would be a more worthwhile investment, adults only!

2. Upgrades - one reader Hess 936 saying he would decline an upgrade in certain circumstances, I totally agree and indeed have when offered a space available upgrade often declined, esepcially if i have a seat in club which i know is good. On BA, I know that staff upgrades from economy to First occur and in some cases ahead of full paying business class pax - and in some cases the staff are from other airlines. I know this first hand and i hasten to add I am not employed in the airline business or associated with BA in anyway shape or form. When talking about the lack of menus in First for uograded pax, I should have added "to staff upgrades".

3. At the gate you will always notice the staff members going for upgrades. Usually with a partner a few steps behind, they try to catch the attention of the red cap, whisper whisper and then an anxious wait and then the smile.

4. when you are in First check out the number of pilot bags that come through - esepcially shoiwng a name tag of the airline you are flying.

I realise its all about choice, but overall, how on earth, any director or employee belives he can justify £7000++ on an airticket, when for far less you can still get a bed is beyond belief. I consider myself privaledged to be able to turn left and not right when i enter an aircraft, but I also beleive that one should be accountable for expenditure.

Now if I am an MP or a lottery euro lottery winner, its a different story.

This is a great site and well contributed. I also agree that comments should not be personal - perhaps a moderator is needed by the sponsors.

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Anybody writing that (sic) "BA have the best busienss class seat of all airlines" simply cannot be a frequent traveller, and cannot have flown on more than one carrier (i.e. BA).

It's not even an opinion to state that the above is not only incorrect...

It. Just. Isn't. True.

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SimpleDXB do not mix 'SEAT'and 'SERVICE'.

I will challenge you Mr. SimpleDXB ,with the loser making a charitable donation to show a better business class (busienss first excluded) seat than BA's current model. Keep your food and drink and waitress/er service to one side - becasue when you are asleep, you dont need it or are you judging the size of the steak instead of the comfort of the seat?

Have a great weekend an dwe could indeed raise charity with this forumn - if people are brave enough to proove what they say...........

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I gladly accept your challenge, although it is the easiest challenge I have ever undertaken. And given I rarely eat on flights, it is not the 'size of the steak' that I am using as the benchmark in any assessment I am making as to the inferiority of BA's product to others.

So in response to your post, for starters, I'll raise you Etihad's J class seat. Do please note that EY's new J class seat which is now being installed across their fleet is even better than their previous award winning J class seat (which incidentally won the 2009 Skytrax award for Best business class - as voted for by 16 million Skytrax users, myself included). It's a wonderful seat, so much so that I prefer it to their (non-suite) first class product.

But whilst we're on that note, I should also point out that EY's new first class suite which I recently enjoyed on a trip LHR-AUH makes BA's new first class product look about as luxurious as an Austin Princess.

Cancer Research is my chosen charity of choice BTW.

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Mr Simple DXB - be serious, how on earth can Etihad be a real contender, when every flight from London, goes bumpity bump into Dubai and as regualr as London Underground, its "all change", just as you reach the land of nod after your calorie filled silver service dinng experience. Dont tell me you go for a cheaper First class option with a stop in Dubai .... fly direct .... in super Club World and you will avoid the wake up call mid way through your long haul flight.

Please Mr SimpleDXB, you will need to do better than that - send your donation to the Heart Foundation and admit defeat !!

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SimpleDXB

There are some on here who seem to accept only their own beliefs.

British Airways seat is good, but Etihad better.

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If one is choosing a carrier for a better slip only, SQ and Cathy London routes business class seats are far better than BA or Etihad. Even in the food and entertainment department, these two carriers beat others due varities, higher quality and serivice. Millions of voters at Skytrax can not be wrong.

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Whatever you may think about various carriers' Business Classes, this thread is about First Class.

www.ba.com/first

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Who are you to tell others what to write? huh?

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Yes this thread is about BA New First Class not who has the best Business Class, start a new thread so more people can join the discussion

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Martyn, Etihad have never landed in Dubai. I honestly have no idea what you are talking about. You have proved yourself you be a bit of a twit with that last post.

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SimpleDXB...allow me to extend a warm, unofficial welcome to you on behalf of those of us who don't pay much attention to those posters who see fit to act as propagandists for various airlines. Just be careful though, BT's Editorial seems to be in cahoots with these propagandists and one word from the former to the latter might result in you being censored. Otherwise, keep up the good work and, as Public Enemy once rapped, Don't Believe Da Hype...boyeeee.

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I am impressed with the pictures and look forward to the new BA 1st cabin ASAP. I am pleased that they didnt go all blingy, and the BA style will please some and not others, thats why we have a choice, and maintain our loyalty to a particular airline.

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Wow - guys, calm down, this is an open blog, so Mr.Wildgoose dont patronize people by beleiving you have a right to welcome people on a selective basis. If we all had the same views there would nt be a need for this blog. Whilst I am not party to propogandists, even if the airlines and BT contributed to these sites it would be advantageous. The subject arrived at Business Class after it was suggested that BA First, whilst luxurious, was in 2010 not necerssary because of the increased conforts of business class. If you guys want to fly around the world at your shareholders expense, sepnding £7k ++ for a ticket, let me know if you are still in business. I know for fact that around 50% of first class seats are used by staff, upgraders and free loaders. If BT want to contact me, to verify, they have my details as they have all our details when we signed in.

In the discussion re club world, I stand by all my points. Ethiad do have a good product, but when on business, i prefer to save time and fly direct, not through Abu Dhabi (apologies on that) or Dubai. Therefore the club world seat is far more comfy direct.

I belong to 20 or so ftravel related forums/blogs and we have raised money for charity in our light hearted banter - and silly ideas. Some of you on here, think you are running board rooms. Please guys, this is a light hearted room for travel related issued related to threads posted. Dont think every post has dubious or political reasons for posting.

Welcome to you all of us and at least lets be civil.

So Mr. Wildgoose, .................check out Etihads route map.........i think you will find Dubai on the map.

Now go and have an enjoyable weekend and if you support soccer, i hope your football team wins.

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dxb is on route map only because lon-dxb is reached by a bus ( which comes as part of your ticket) from auh-dxb

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Martyn, I never actually raised a point relating to Etihad and Dubai; you're obviously mixing me up with another poster in your haste to condemn. My message to Simple was part ironic and part supportive; obviously, you missed the irony and I'm pretty sure you're not that sharp at picking up other things either, judging by your response and those that you elicit from other posters (i.e.Craigwatson's). On the positive side, I happen to agree with you about this not being a "board room" and that, in this day and age, First Class is gradually becoming redundant (Gulf Air, according to BT, are pretty much abandoning First Class and VS haven't even had an F cabin ever since they began).

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Hi everyone !!

So GF is taking the F class cabin out and try to implement a premium class between Business Class and First Class. I have got the feeling they are finally seeing the reality that EY and WY have outbid them. I tried WY's Business Class and was really surprised to experience a full flat seat which GF and OZ( in some F cabins depending on aircraft type) only offer in there F class cabins. It was great and really felt exclusive( cabin was only 20 % full on that flight). Food was okay and really felt Business class worthy. And with the price paid--it was definitely a good choice. WY has to implement more destinations (business oriented cities) to get some attentions from premium pax.

So going back to the main topic here---BA's new product----well, sincerly--as I have stated before, it is really down-to-earth and demure. This does not mean a bad product or an inferior one. I strictly believe everyone has to try it personally and finds out on his own, if it is the money worth paid for or not. It is definitely far behind comparing to such product innovations like EK, EY, CX, JL, 9W etc.. But to be modest and objective here---those seats have proved or still have to prove their paying premium pax, if they are really that good or not. This goes to the new BA F product. I personally was disappointed as I have expected a new product and definitely a groundbreaking design/innovations like Club World in those past days. But we all now that BA has some current problems where it was probably wise to take the chances of some slight enhancements for the sake of saving money( I dearly hope Waterside had saved money for these enhancements instead of a new product !!).

Is F class becoming redundant? I personally think we are not yet there--we still fly and pay the F class fares. More important those premium pax want this F class products. So as long as those pax still exist and long for such products--there will be still a market for F class.

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Hess - on your last point, I agree with you that first class is not on its way to become extinct. Still a relatively large number of airlines have a long-haul F cabin (30-40 depending on how you count), and I think the current trend to eliminate or reduce F (Gulf, Qantas etc) is partly downturn/crisis related. We may well see a reversed trend when the economy is up again and as previously pointed out it is doubtful whether Qantas' decision to drastically reduce F seating is wise from a longer-term perspective.

However, I do think the F segment will be very competitive and airlines who wish to attract a paying F crowd must really offer the whole package of benefits, both on the ground and onboard. For example, as someone pointed out in a previous post, I think BA's current F experience in Heathrow's T5 must be developed. Whilst the Concorde Room is an excellent lounge, the rest of the experience should be made more personalised and exclusive (security, move to the gate/plane etc).

Thanks everyone for a very interesting forum (but to a few of you: do skip the angry outbursts...!)

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While the “air time” is obviously the longest part of a journey, a true First Class experience is more than just a seat and the cabin. I think the key word is experience: from booking to reaching final destination. I can think of special phone numbers for queries, pick up services (also available for business in some market), special check in process, lounges, arrival services. Look at the investments made by many airlines in the overall experience; LH First Class Terminal, BA Concorde Room, QF First Class Lounge in Sydney to mention a few.

The question is; what is First Class worth? Let’s take an example; ARN-JFK on LX via ZRH. Cheapest fare in Y-cabin is around €550. In the C-cabin it is around €1600, and F-cabin it is €4800. Would I pay 3x for business class? Yes, certainly would and I do for business and holidays. Would I pay another 3x for First? Not on my current pay scale. Personally, I love to travel First, but I don’t have the funds to pay for it.

Will First disappear all in all? No way! There is a market with a mix of passengers; wealthy individuals, senior executives, and celebrities. There is a segment looking for the differentiated experience; from booking to arrival..

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AndrewFlyer, how lucky you are. The chances of one of the contributors to this forum being on the inaugural flight, on a quick trip to Chicago, and returning on the same plane, is a little like winning the lottery. Real indepth review, although it does sound a tad as if it had been written by the BA PR department, NOT that I'm suggesting anything here!

Well, even though I fly first about once a month, I'm not holding my breath to be able to write my review until 2011. Although it seems pretty much identical to the prototype I was invited to comment on for BA 4 years ago at Waterside.

On the subject of business class, I do find it boring to be told how I should spend my money. On the subject of the wager, I think MartynSinclair should do the honourable thing and write a cheque to Cancer Research. BA is NOT the best business class in the world. I don't fly J very often but I always have a good look. The EK J seat is about the size of BA First. And it's a bit cheeky to change the rules along the way and exclude some of the best airlines in the world. Come on, let's see your cheque book!

And one final note, true, F upgrades often stand out a mile, but not because they get the leftovers or inferior service. I have never seen BA cabin crew do anything of the sort. I would even venture a guess that crew members don't know if a passenger has been upgraded or paid full whack.

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The comments on here about upgrades to F from J are very pertinent.

Twice recently I have prebooked my favorite seat in J and at the gate I have been told ''oh you are lucky, you have been upgraded to F''. Each time I have been put into an inferior F seat (the middle ones near the galley). Each time I have refused and requested my original J seat that I had booked. Each time I was told ''sorry they it has been reallocated''.

Would it not be polite of BA to ASK a Gold card holder, or any premium passenger, if he/she would like to have the upgrade before doing it? Sometimes I prefer my seat in Club!

I witnessed a couple in the F lounge at LGW being told that they had been upgraded to F. They explained that they were with a birthday party of 6 and wanted to remain in J with their friends...very reasonable. They were also told ''sorry your seats have been reallocated' nothing can be done ''unless you want to try to change back on the aircraft, yourselves''!!

These BA upgrades are seldom done for the passengers benefit. It is sorting out the overbooking problem on a flight.

Dont just upgrade me. Ask me!

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BA upgrades have a message on the passenger list against the name ''upgraded to F due oversales'' etc. So the cabin crew are fully AWARE. The BA service policy in F is that the meal orders are taken from full fare, then upgrades, then staff...in that order. This can be witnessed by the way that the crew taking the orders 'dance' around the F cabin! You can also tell who are the staff travelling in F because they are instructed to refuse wash bags, sleepsuits and are refused unopened wine!

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Lamentable attitude to upgraded pax on BA. I got upgraded from J to F on EK recently and didn't experience any diminished service. Kudos to EK's F class attendants for their professionalism and impartiality. I know who I'M flying with in the future.

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I would not agree that the crew dance around the cabin taking orders. Having both been upgraded and paid for F I have found that the crew take the orders by going to each seat in turn in sequence. The level of service also remains unchanged.

Most people get a "wow factor" on being upgraded and accept without hesitation, I would suspect that the number of times that people refuse are very low. The people you refer to in the birthday party would not have been upgraded if they were all on the same booking.

By and large I don't think you can tell if someone has been upgraded if they are used to travelling F or a frequent flyer. I think you can if someone has been upgraded from WT+ to J. Mind you when my wife and I had been upgraded to the spa suite on the 43rd floor of the Hilton Sydney the day beforewe went SYD-SIN we joked about being upgraded to F and that our luck would not extend to that. So when we were upgraded at the gate our shock and jaws open probably gave it away!

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Hi eveyone !!

Yes, being upgraded is great--that is a fact ! But it is also a fact that it would be great in some circumstances to be asked first, if you want to give your Club World seat and be seated in F cabin. As I am not that huge fan of BA F seat---I really prefer Club World ! And especially--and yes it is true--the fact as well that you get only the rest of the food choices after the full fare F pax has ordered first. And foremost the feeling to be treated as "second class pax in the F cabin". Some has still dignity.

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Are PAX using airmiles and AMEX companion vouchers treated in the same way i.e served after fare paying PAX

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Ever noticed the pilots on Singapore using an empty F class seat for crew rest. They are the ones wearing the sweaters to cover their gold bars. As for the business class challenge - figure out a way to prove the best business class seat (on a grown up airline) and i will be happy to suggest a charity for my challenger to donate to! Stroll on Club World.....

I hope you all have a great week - and trust you are not stuck by the LH stirke.

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Sorry Hess, but I don't agree that F upgrade passengers are treated any differently to fare paying passengers. Whilst I would admit my F experiences are far less than travelling in J, my experience is that everyone is treated the same.

Lets be honest here, why upgrade someone (forget the technical reasons) and then treat them the same as J or lesser than others in the same cabin? It just does not make sense, as a business you hope that those upgraded will delight in the experience and travel F and pay for it.

I would question whether the crew have any idea if someone has a discounted or fully flexable ticket or a miles/companion or whatever, it does not matter, the service should be the same.

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Travellator - yes, AmEx 2 for 1 voucher holders and mileage redeemers are treated as full fare customers. Upgrades "may" have a meal order taken after other full-F pax have had theirs (I saw this happen coming up from Joburg one evening), but then again, those of use who have paid (even with miles or 2 for 1) should be given choice over upgrades and staff.

FCTraveller - I'm so sorry my review sounds like a BA Press Blurb. It was not meant to be. I do not work for BA...I am a consultant based at Canary Wharf. My chance flight to Chicago was really luck - the crew told me the aircraft was originally due to fly to JFK, but because of bad weather in New York (closing JFK), it was put onto a few ORD and SEA rotations before going onto JFK. I felt so lucky, I bought a EuroMillions ticket - alas, my luck clearly ran out when I left the comfort of G-VIIU as I didn't win a penny!

My thoughts on BA First, the "footprint" and number of seats must make money for BA on the routes they serve, or else they wouldn't operate it. Many of the Asian carriers are reducing the number of seats in F on board to match their demand. BA clearly have demand for up an average of 14 pax per flight. I am one of them - there are times where we are permitted to use revenue First tickets - they aren't all £7,000 plus...but when you have to arrive in tip top shape, it can be an essential tool to a successful meeting. The new seat is an evolution, not a revolutionary new capsule. It is wider, more luxurious and seems more spacious than the previous seat. The overall cabin ambiance is an improvement, too. It was such a change, I felt the need to share this with fellow travellers via this forum.

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Hi Nigel

that is the point--your last sentence: ...the service should be the same..

But how could you feel being treated the same when you feel as an upgrade pax that it is obvious that full paying pax are being served primarily( which is for okay for me as they have paid the F full fare) and you as an upgrader--getting the feeling of being served or treated lesser than you have deserved as a full paying pax.

Then the crews should be more sensitive in not showing those differences -- than the moment the pax see it--for me it is not an exclusive feeling anymore ! I definitely won't begrudge someone for being upgraded as they have flown a lot and shown their loyalty to that specific airlines or alliance. It is the matter of balance and right tone/action on the side of the crews to win the pax on his side and make this pax a loyal customer. But never give him/her the feeling of being an extra burden as an upgrader. The crew has a pax manifest onboard . And in some airlines they have a list and ranking of their Honourables, VIPs, Elite flyers and who are paying pax and who are upgraders. In some airlines I know it 'cause I had the chance to see this list !!

So in such airlines I always know, if those crews are professional enough to make a good service and never let anyone see the distinction between the paxs because there is always a distinction -it is normal that the crews are attentive to those who are obviously a frequent and loyal customer of their airline. But as I have said--always be professional to charm ALL PAX in that cabin and give them the feeling of being exclusive and well taken care of. I do not want to sound like a freaking CX fan --but - the crews of CX in my previous flights have just showed me that giving someone the right attentiveness, service with a true smile, caring words and taking time to chat .and most important answer my questions and request properly..made me forget how dreadful those regional C seats were....and the crews have won me as their future premium pax.

Is it that hard to win a pax ? Obviously the Asian carriers have no big issues and no really big efforts to show it to their premium paxs. European carriers like LH, LX, OS, BA ...are on their way ( especially the younger recruits..as they are still motivated to give their best ) to do it---but still behind the Asian carriers though.

So being upgraded is good--but I want the proper service included in this F class experience and not the lesser version !

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Hi Hess

I think you make a good point about crews being proffessional enough for it not to notice. Certainly my experience is that there is no difference. Must try and remember to make note next time I am lucky enough to be upgraded.

We don't want the airlines, no matter who to go down the line of the railways in that some operators won't allow lounge access if you have an advance ticket becuase "you might be noisy and upset the full fare paying passengers" I was told at Leeds once!!

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Probably wont be flying at all now - strike just announced and our flights are in the danger period leading up to easter !

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Hi Nigel !!

Well there we have it--unprofessionalism ! Saying that to you or in a similar context is definitely a huge mistake in service attitude ! That person should be taught to do it more better in the future. Advance ticket or not..if you have the right to be in that lounge as a part of your ticket than you have the right of entrance. Telling you of being noisy and probably upsetting full paying pax is the paramount of a worst service attitude you can imagine ! Giving another pax the feeling of being less and not worthy to be with other full paying pax there---is just impertinent ! I hope you have remembered that person and wrote something back.

Hess

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next time you travel take a look in the First galley and you will see the pax list stuck to the wall with all sorts of info about whos in each seat, their status, whether crew or pax upgrade. The list is a tear off slip from the pax load sheets from the boarding gate. Off course the crew knows what kind of ticket each of their pax hold - its their job to know.

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Correct Martyn,

but oftenly the crews or the CSM him/herself try not to show it to the pax. As there are names and infos which none other than crews should be seeing them. But sometimes you do see who is sitting where and who is the most "Honourable of all F pax " on that flight.

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I don' t like the fact that BA upgrade so many passengers to F, and I always have a feel for how many there are by comparing the number of free seats when checking in during the day to the number of free seats on the flight, which often is vastly different. However, the issue of whether passengers should get different service is another matter and I firmly believe that it is wrong to treat them differently. Whether someone has paid full whack, sale price, upgrade from J or Y even, or miles, they should all be treated the same once in the cabin. Some of you say you have seen this but I haven't. Staff travel however is a different matter. In fact, a crew member was part of the other forum, let's ask him or her what the policy is.

Last month coming back from Atlanta, one of the pilots came and installed himself in the seat across the aisle from me and was there for quite a long time. I really don't like that.

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BA actually has one of the most restrictive upgrade policies - operational upgrades only, even in the current environment; contrast this with most US carriers whose elite members expect an upgrade as a matter of course.

BA treats upgraded passengers in exactly the same way as paid passengers.

The ONLY slight exception to this is the first choice meal preference which is given to those with status, paid over those without, or upgraded, a practice which most airlines follow in cases where not all choices are available.

Staff travel has specific rules, but others will be able to give more first hand knowledge of those regulations than I could.

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So to clarify VK, a Gold Exec card holder who has been upgraded will have preference over a Silver card holder who has paid a fare?

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VK - not sure how you justify "restrictive upgrade policies" when so many staff are upgraded by the red cap over full fare passengers. My info comes first hand from both red caps and from flight deck crew. You wont see the red caps going on strike - they have a very profitable side business...............

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Martyn..I hate to say this really---but in this topic you are right ! I have the impression, you have got a good in- and oversight of it.

Nigel: I just hope tha a Silver paying pax has more rights and privilege than a Gold card holder who is upgraded---do someone who has the insight will really tells us BA internal policies? I believe they won't do it voluntarily.

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Martyn, while it may happen, it should not and is not "policy"; I referenced "restrictive upgrade policy" not what may actually happen on the ground.

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you are absolutely correct VK - it should not happen, but it happens virtually every day. If the BA enforcement teams did spot checks and found that staff were being upgraded in an unwarranted fashion, by fellow staff, it could casue a very interesting HR and legal situation as it could be considered as 'theft' and 'fraud'. Just like the spot checks on cross border ticketing, where the first sector from Europe to London is not used, bording IS DENIED to fare paying passengers. I love BA, but unfortuantely the managers do not want to address these issues, which is one of the reasons why Unite have so much power to dictate to BA. BTW has anyone seen Unite's balance sheets and how wealthy the Union is.........................

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Travellator

Sorry I'm a little late in the thread, but I've done both LGW - BGI (Barbados) and LHR - LAX on 'Miles' and on both occasions saw no difference to the service levels in F on either flight. and I had 2A on all legs of the flights.

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Upgrades and Staff Travel. The way it works and the info crew receive. Of course, if you have paid for your premium cabin ticket it can certainly be irritating to see, what looks like, upgrades or staff in the same cabin. As for being treated differently, the crew will endeavour to treat everyone the same, ensuring the customer has the best experience of the First product. If the customer is a regular then we know that they know what is expected. If the customer is upgraded due to oversales they will receive the same service. If the customer is staff or are maybe treating themselves to a First class flight we will want them to have the best experience possible, one to remember. So, whoever the customer is we want them to receive the best for a number of reasons. As for priority service, crew love a quiet life, therefore we will do the best we can with the resources available to ensure all customers have everything they want. If, for example, everyone wanted the same thing for dinner, who do YOU think should have priority? Prems, Gold, Silver, ticketed First, upgraded pax, staff. Fair enough?

Info we have. We know: Who has paid full-fare. Your tier of Executive Club membership. Who had been upgraded . Staff passengers and their cabin entitlement. Who has been rude to groundstaff, who to keep an eye on.

We do not know if people have upgraded with miles.

There is absolutely no resentment of any type for upgraded pax. Eveyone is due a little bit of luck, if it is your lucky day, fair play. However, if you have been upgraded and start acting like the big 'I am' this will result in notes being made, passed on and you can bet it will never happen to you again. It is more a problem with Economy to Club upgrades due to oversales rather than with Club to First, but it does happen.

Staff passengers. Some staff are entitled to travel in First or Club. This could be because of their position in the company or length of service. Like it or not, this is the way it is. Staff should try to keep a low profile. Some staff are better at doing this than others. Crew travelling know the score, a baggage handler with 30 years service and his wife off to Dehli may not. I mentioned on another thread, if you work for Ford you will receive discounts when you buy a car. Customers can't go to Ford and complain about this. In our industry the product we have is the onboard service. Utilising this rewards staff and does positive things for morale, which can only be a good thing for all. If you have worked for an airline for 25 years there isn't much else they can reward you with. Frequent flyers will be able to spot staff or upgrades, but please know they do not receive preferential treatment. Staff will always have last choice of food for example. Very rarely will staff be sat in a cabin they are not entitled to. The good old days of putting your dear old mother in a nice seat if they were travelling on a flight with you have, BY ORDER, been banned by BA - citing THEFT. Make up your own minds there folks.

FCTraveller mentioned a pilot taking a seat in the cabin. Fair enough to ask why? If the flight requires 3 pilots only 2 operate at one time. The other one is not required and can 'rest'. Most aircraft have bunks however a few do not, therefore a premium seat is blocked for them. The best place for them to be is in the cabin closest to the flightdeck. Should the brown stuff hit the fan you want all hands on deck ASAP. Also, to prevent fatigue, it is best for our drivers to have the quietest cabin and most comfortable seat. Of course, it is unlikely they will sleep if it is 11am, they may watch a movie, but so would you.

I hope that is of some use folks.

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Just to add, with so many thousands of crew, some may not be as good as others when it comes down to it. Because we are not the robots of the asian carriers, we do have some flexibility when it comes to providing the service. This is mostly a good thing, however everyone does things differently....if you feel it is not good enough, put pen to paper, its the only way we can make things better.

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While you might find cabin crew of "the asian carriers" robotic, you might stop t consider that these airlines, such as CX and SQ, and, to a lesser extent MH, ANA and Asiana, receive widespread accoldaes for their service. When was the last time BA's cabin crew won an award?

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Dont get me wrong, I didn't mean to knock them. CX and SQ are very good, consistent and their attention to detail is second to none. Point I wanted to make was even though there are service guidelines there is room for flexibility for BA crew. Rarely, very rarely I hope, there could be a crewmember who, for whatever reason, may not want to give 100% that day, whereas our Asian colleagues have Chief Mama-san breathing down their neck, they dare not put a foot wrong. But, that system seems to work and prizes are awarded for that. So if you feel the service was not up to scratch that day, let the airline know. Feedback we receive from our customers includes joy at being able to have a conversation with us and the flexibility we can offer, light hearted banter now and again, etc. I will never say "we are the best", ( I don't like the self appreciation society) there will always be a couple of bad eggs in such a big basket and no doubt BA staff can learn a lot from those carriers.

C.3.P.O. - out.

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The flexibilty that Honest Crew mentions - I know we live in a world of hightened security and rigid procedures (even robotic!) but talking of flexibility, has anyone else come across a BA Captain, who likes to address his upper deck passengers in person. He is a real character, back to the old days when the 4 gold bars were visible and were seen to be in control. I have flown with him twice and on each occasion before engine start, he came out of the flight deck and addressed all the upper deck passengers with an amusing yet attention grabbing introduction and flight safety message. A reak old school kinda fellow, but it was a nice touch to see and only on these 2 occasions since 9/11. Also to the BA crew last week, that allowed me to store my special food requirement, in a flexible manner in the galley, thank you very much indeed. Honest Crew, you are indeed right, its nice to see the flexibilty and common sense attitude - just wish there was more of it from all airlines.....Good post!

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Honest Crew, thanks for that. One clarification though, you say crew are aware of full fare paying passengers. Does that include distinguishing between full fare and sale fare? You said that you are not aware of miles upgrades, what about someone paying only with miles?

Point well taken about pilot using F seat. I will remember that next time.

You comments about Asian crews were a bit harsh! I have never found them to be robotic.

Anyway, thanks again for your input.

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Back in December when there were delays to flights from LGW due to the snow, having made our way down to the gate from the lounge to find the flight was not boarding yet, the Captain took the tannoy and announced that he was sorry for the delay, what was happening and boarding in a few minutes.

Not quite the same as Martyn's experience, but at least everyone saw the Captain at the gate making the announcement. What is also a nice touch, is when the Captain stands with the crew at the doors bidding farewell to passengers. This Captain did as well, so full marks to him and I did email BA to ask them to congratulate the Captain. Sadly I didn't get an acknowledgement.

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To answer FCT's question, we have no info with regards to who has paid or upgraded with miles because it will make no difference to the service given/received. A small asterix indicates the customer has paid 'full fare', the highest price for that particular flight, but again we do not see that as a priority when it comes to service, just that they probably had to fly away last minute unexpectedly rather than be at home watching Top Gear.

I wasn't digging at the Asian crew, I previously worked for one of them. It is a cultural thing, lets call it efficiency rather than robotic, it works wonders when everything is running fine. If something unexepected happens and it is not in the manual how to deal with it, well thats another story. We can learn a lot from them when it comes to customer service, that is for sure, the accolades speak for themselves. Plus, how can I put this? They do tend to be... 'easier on the eye' than our dear old ladies.

For Martyn, thanks for your compliment. Crew for all airlines are in a constant battle against their employer when it comes to flexibility. This has been going on since I joined the game. Silly things such as looking after a customers own food had been stopped for 'hygiene reasons' (!) Gladly, some of us are happy to see past this and realise that keeping a couple of Krispy Kremes in the fridge wont cause an outbreak of whatever they think might outbreak. Do keep in mind though, whatever the topic of discussion, if the crew say no it means they have been told to say no...the old 'dont shoot the messenger' thing again.

Speaking of topic of discussion, how is that new F seat doing?

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To answer FCT's question, we have no info with regards to who has paid or upgraded with miles because it will make no difference to the service given/received. A small asterix indicates the customer has paid 'full fare', the highest price for that particular flight, but again we do not see that as a priority when it comes to service, just that they probably had to fly away last minute unexpectedly rather than be at home watching Top Gear.

I wasn't digging at the Asian crew, I previously worked for one of them. It is a cultural thing, lets call it efficiency rather than robotic, it works wonders when everything is running fine. If something unexepected happens and it is not in the manual how to deal with it, well thats another story. We can learn a lot from them when it comes to customer service, that is for sure, the accolades speak for themselves. Plus, how can I put this? They do tend to be... 'easier on the eye' than our dear old ladies.

For Martyn, thanks for your compliment. Crew for all airlines are in a constant battle against their employer when it comes to flexibility. This has been going on since I joined the game. Silly things such as looking after a customers own food had been stopped for 'hygiene reasons' (!) Gladly, some of us are happy to see past this and realise that keeping a couple of Krispy Kremes in the fridge wont cause an outbreak of whatever they think might outbreak. Do keep in mind though, whatever the topic of discussion, if the crew say no it means they have been told to say no...the old 'dont shoot the messenger' thing again.

Speaking of topic of discussion, how is that new F seat doing?

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Does anyone have an idea on what the roll out time scale is for the new F?

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I will finally get to see it in the Concorde Room this week but it will be a while before I fly in it, I expect.

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So, what did you think of the new seat, FCTraveller?

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VK - how was the trip to LA? Hotel good value???

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I was upgraded to First from Club in BA a number of times in long haul - during my Gold card status days. I would say I found BA is one of the best airline for upgrade. Of course, crew know the upgraders - but it is not true that there is much difference in service standard (except once on an overnight flight I was asked by a stewardess, if I really need the pyjama suits). The fixed seat rule is also not true - I was allocated 1K once during upgrade, 4K and 5K in other times.

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very good posts by honestcrew. Being BA crew myself and an ex travel agent I would like to add that crew cannot differentiate between those passengers who have paid full fare or those who paid a discounted fare. On the passenger list the crew receive.. there is absolutely no information regarding this. However contrary to what honest crew said we can see who has used miles/points (whatever you call them nowadays) to upgrade.. there is a 4 letter code under their name RDUG, which stands for redemption upgrade... If I remember correctly sometimes passengers have the option to pay for upgrades whilst checking in and that code would be PDUG. Whilst working in the premium cabins I try my best to treat everyone as equals. We do have it "programmed" into us by BA though to ensure Prems, Golds and Silvers get their choice 1st. Ideally we want to give everyone their 1st choice but we simply can only work with what we are given. As previously mentioned storing passengers own food/medication from a company point of view is a big NO NO.. but it depends on the crew on the day.. who knows what would happen if a manager from inflight services happened to be onboard and saw this!? My opinion of pilots "resting" in F is that it looks tacky when they are sprawled across their seat, unfortunately though it's part of their agreement. Staff will always be served last in a premium cabin... generally most are well behaved, but we can spot them miles away even before we are given the final list of names ;)... and finally with regards to "dancing" around the cabin with the meal order (that made me laugh!!).. I may have to put my hands up and admit I may do this... but I do hope I'm not that obvious.... My reason for this is to offer the full menu to our frequent flyers as previously mentioned... I personally don't see the point in going row by row, then having to go back and tell quite a few people that I can't offer what they wanted.... at least I can tell them there and then, the way I do it.

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It's good to know that elites are recognised when ordering their meal choices; regular flyers can get mightily bored with the same food, and it's important they are given priority.

Having said that, I usually make it clear that if someone else has a preference for a main course that I would be happy with an alternative.

The sweetcorn soup followed by lamb cutlets I had last week are highly recommended.

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Stunning photo at http://www.airliners.net/photo/British-Airways/Boeing-777-236-ER/1692175/&sid=b1fa4f75fc1a6e17c7fea287e3622024

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from that view - the only differentiator are the large windows. It looks more like club world than First (yes i also see the space for the jacket to hung by the seat - but that only takes up cabin space). Will be itnerested to tr, but my next trip to Asia is 60K club world!

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Dear HonestCrew: I travel BA First around 12 to 14 times in a normal year and am escorted to my seat First 1 ouf of 10 times by a FA. I do however notice that FAs escort most of the F cabin. What is the formula to get one of your charming colleages to show me my seat a bit more often? Are there priorities? Normally I know where to find my seat but if this is a normal practice, then why not do it for all passengers?

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They are no "FAs" on British Airways.

It is most odd that your experience of BA -and I think I am right that it was you accused BA of having documented racist policies a while ago - never seem to experience the levels of service and attention which many of us with similar travel patterns are both familiar with and see demonstrated with (nearly) 100% consistency.

I await another accusation of discrimination or similar....

When there are staff available at the door, I have NEVER not been escorted to my seat when sitting in First.

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I have been flying BA first since 1997 and I can honestly say hand on heart and I have never once not been escorted to my seat. NEVER. Therefore, I believe that it is highly unlikely that a passenger who flies 10 to 14 times in a year gets escorted to his seat once every 10 times. Mmmm.

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Indeed it was HBHLondon who branded BA institutionally racist as a consequence of allegedly upgrading some other passengers ahead of him on a flight he once took many moons ago....all this was an event which occurred in the mid 1980s....

Interestingly, HBH has removed ALL his posts from that thread:

www.businesstraveller.com/discussion/topic/BA-upgrading-after-boarding

It does seem most odd that someone who believes BA to be a racist organisation should still keep putting so much premium business their way. The reference to FAs does not ring true with someone who is habitually familar with the British Airways nomenclature, either.

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Hello Everyone,

I have been reading this thread with some interest and feel that I need to make a contribution.

Regular contributors to this forum know my views on BA, I am not currently a big fan but previously flew with them almost exclusively for many years and had a Gold Card.

I find myself once again having to agree with VK. In my experience of flying F, and that was on quite a regular basis, in the days when almost all of my clients sanctioned travel in the F cabin, I do not remember a single occassion when CC did not escort me to my seat.

I do remember one occassion when there was no CC at the door as the flight was a particularly busy one, I had just turned left to head into the F cabin and the FSD was at my side to aplogise that no one was there to greet me. He then escorted me to my seat and had one of his colleagues take over as he had to get back to greeting other passengers.

So HBHLondon, I find it strange that BA always seem to come up short when it comes to meeting your expectations as compared to those of others.

For my friends and other regular poster out there who are interested in the 'Jonathan's return to BA saga' my first flight in a long haul J cabin will take place next weekend. you can be sure that I will post my views on the whole experience, from check-in, lounges, on-board and post flight upon my return.

Safe travels everyone,

Jonathan

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Dear VC: I am indeed escorted 1 out of 10 times to my First seat whether you like or not what I say. It is not odd, it is real. I did not accuse BA of institutional racism, I said that a BA ckeck-in person told me this was the case. What are you doing in this forum if you keep demonising people like me? You are obvioulsy planted here by BA. Come on: BA is not perfect. Well, perhaps only in your mind. I do like BA and I wish the best for it, but sometimes one does have really bad experiences from them. You seem to live in cucu land. I stick to my point that I am escorted to my seat 1 out of 10 times. And I am sure it has nothing to do with racism, as most of the times there is at leats a FA of ethnic origin on any flight. I do put business there way because BA is still the most convenient airline for me and I suppose it is best to stick to the devil one knows...

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Dear Jonathan: it is not strange, it happens. I flew to Cairo over Easter this year and it did not happen. I asked a FA why was I not escorted to my seat and she apologised.

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Greetings from cucu land.

What is the reasoning behind removing all your posts from the thread in which you made the accusation of institutional racism?

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Dear VC: Greetings from the real world. I did not accuse BA of institutional racism, but people in the thread did because of their appalling experiences on flying BA. The reason for removing my entries was very simple: it was the first time I had made a contribution to this forum and was shocked by the criticism and the negative reaction, especially yours, obviuosly a BA employee who is determined to contradict and smear me. Also, it was bit silly of me for criticising BA for not upgrading me. It never happened and will never happen, especially now that you will try to see who I am to put me on some black list.

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*rolls eyes*

I really could not give two hoots of my special cuculand hooter who you are.

If you actually read the thread, you will see how many people disagreed with the points you made:

www.businesstraveller.com/discussion/topic/BA-upgrading-after-boarding

As I recall, the event to which you referred in that thread happened in the 1980s. You stated that based on your experience then, that it was BA's *policy* not upgrade people based on their race. That is an appalling libel and is just simply not true. In other words, a lie.

For the avoidance of doubt I am not, nor ever have been, connected to BA in any capacity other than as a customer and shareholder.

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Hello everyone,

HBHLondon, you are free to stick to your view that it happens 1 time in 10 to you just as I am free to tell you that in my experience that it seems strange to me that you are only escorted to your seat as little as you are. Can I also ask you not to accuse VK of being a BA plant as he has said on more than one occassion that he is not and that should be good enough for us.

We should not be accusing people of lying in this forum.

VK- how are things in cucu land, do they have volcanoes and ash clouds or you free of such problems there.

Safe travels everyone,

Jonathan

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cuculand is very sunny this afternoon, though I fear the natives may be getting restless....

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Dear all,

In fairyland, cuculand or in plain ol' World... Let's be civil ladies and gents..

Back to topic.. I have only one experience in BA F and about handfull across LX, LH, and AF. I must say that LH/LX I always get escorted to my seat and on BA I am 1 of 1. Given the BA cabin has many seats as compared to AF, LX, LH (except 747-400) perhaps they don't have enough staff to deal with it?

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when i grew up, my mummy and daddy taught me to walk unaided to seat 1A. If the busy cabin crew cant walk me now, at least i know the way. now i must join you all with another glass of milk.........where did i leave my rattle then.....................??!!

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I refuse to darken the door of any airline which is not able to convey me to my seat in a Sedan Chair.

Air CuCu never disappoints on this score.

1A, MartynSinclair?

That's rather arriviste. ;)

Natch, Mummy and Daddy never used public transport, so I took my cues from Nanny who was well versed in travelling en masse. When Nanny and I flew with the other people, she taught me alway to seek out 2K.

A better view of anyone of note, suitably distant from the bogs on most aircraft, and the drinks shelf is on your right, making sipping the DP a more natural manoevre for the right handed. You also don't get blinded by the sun when heading West.

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As a lowly Exec Blue card holder for I guess 15 years or more, I have only graced First on 5 occasions (one 'Involuntary upgrade' and 4 'miles' trips) and on all 5 have been graciously escorted to my little piece of luxury in 2A. I have without doubt suffered moments of prejudice over the years, (you can't be this ugly and expect to get away with it), but never at the hands of BA. Seems I've missed the first cuckcoo too. :-)

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u should have asked nanny to close the blind to stop the sun shinning into boo boo's eyes - guess it was too long ago for you to have had armani or gucci shades???

ps - never knew they put DP into milk bottles or was this the BA touch all them years ago???

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MartynSinclair are you Victoria Beckham's brother? Armani shades indeed...!

In those days we just used a man with a parasol.

Nanny would sweeten the DP with orange juice until I got a proper taste for it. Hardly any ill effects at all.

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The idea of this forum, I suppose, is to share experiences and get helpful information. Yet every time I mention a bad experience flying with BA I get a barrage of abuses. I do not want to see BA go under --its FAs going on strike are doing a very good job to that end-- and for my convenience I prefer it to continue to operate. Yet when one pays an enormous amount of money for a service and does not get it or it is mediocre, well one does have the right to complain and criticise.

Like most people, I also have had very good times flying BA but do not write about them here. I always use the BA site to make good comments about the flight attendants who make a difference to my flight. Yet, not all FAs offer a professional and memorable service and this applies to BA and all other airlines (I have had appalling experiences flying with Singapore Airlines and Emirates, both rated as excellent airlines in service).

I do stick to my point that I do normally know where my seat is in F on BA but in only 1 out of 10 times I get escorted to it. It is no big deal, I was only asking HonestCrew his opinion on this matter as I think it is strange that it keeps happening to me. I also see other people in First not taken to their seats. I think an experienced FA like HonestCrew is more in a position to answer my questions. Let's see what he says. Perhaps I am just unlucky to board at the wrong time.

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HBH I'm not the same person as honestcrew but would like to answer your question. Usually we do have 2 crew at the door for boarding. If we are boarding from 2 doors (which most crew hate doing, there will usually only be 1 crew member at each boarding door)... I can't answer why you weren't taken to your seat but am happy to provide reasons why this may not have happened: - another first class passenger may have boarded just before you, removing the "free" crew member from the door to escort them (we are not permitted to leave any open door unattended) - a crew member who was boarding may have been helping a passenger with special needs to their seat (for example a wheelchair passenger) - CSD may have been called away from the door to deal with a passenger, or have a ground staff request, or even to see the Captain. -As already mentioned you may have boarded a flight where boarding was at door 1 left and 2 left..where there is usually one crew member only. - some First passengers do actually sometimes say "I know where it is, I can go myself"

If none of these apply, I have no idea why this didn't happen on the day and apologize... From my personal experience I always escort First passengers to their seat, as long as the boarding door is covered by another crew member. Thanks

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Somehow I find it hard to beleive HBH that all the things that bacrew1 has said could have happened, happened on nine out of ten flights. Once would be unfortunate, twice again unfortunate, but nine times!!

If you think that is bad try Yorkshire Airlines, Alan Bennett class, you have to put up and shut up.

By the way who is this VC bloke? Perhaps VintageCucu?

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This is probably way out of line...

But it strikes me...

When you do so to the very extent of it, feel that you do not get the bang for the buck you deserve when flying First, Club...

Why not try something cheaper, say World Traveller for instance?

Perhaps not the service level you are used to, but it might serve well as a reminder what you actually get?

At the very least you would travel at a tenth of the price, should be making you feel you landed a bargain!

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did u hear someone say they werent shown to there seat ..... again.......in F..............thought so.

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Hello everyone,

Roadking, not out of line at all in my humble opinion. you actually make a very good point. It never does any harm to get a dose of reality, unless you are someone who is lucky enough to travel only in F or J cabins.

Nigel, what are you suggesting about VK? Also, Tartan Airways SNP class is much worse than Yorkshire airlines Alan Bennett class, please remember that in the future.

Finally, only 3 more days until my retuen to BA, i can hardly contain my excitement!!!

Safe travels everyone,

Jonathan

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Thanks for your support Jonathan.

I am soon back on BA myself, just 10 days now :-). Taking my beloved one to attend a wedding in LAS (going via SFO though, bachelor party there, sounds odd, doesn't it? Should have been the opposite). We both look forward to enjoy BA service.

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Sorry Jonathan, I'll consider myself told!!

Enjoy your BA flight.

Nigel

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Interesting reading these threads, to say the least!

Being at the end of the world, Aussie's have to fly long distances and we can be a critical lot, but I love joining BA in LOS, on a recent flight I was escorted to my seat by a charming middle aged attendant, offered PJ's and suggested that I should change and said, when you get back I will have a cold glass of champagne waiting for you! When BA are good they are the best.

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........aha, back to being shown to ones seat..............has someone previously complained............again......!

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I think the new F will be splendid, but it is after all only a seat in a metal tube which despite all the illusory glamour is a very workaday method of getting round the planet.

Some more staged pics of the cabin here give more of a feel of the differentiating factors from New Club World:

www.businesstraveller.com/news/exclusive-new-british-airways-first

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Hi VK

Maybe my views will change when i have tried it out, but from what i have seen so far - apart fromn the linen, big windows, gourmet (unecessary food - personal choice i know) a wardrobe, which assists cabin crew for storage and 'fresh coat of paint' - I dont get it. Club world is not that much different - ok, so you dont get shown to your seat (did i really bring that subject up again!!).

SOmebody made a commnet about the cubicals reducing the feel of space - i stil think that club world shoul dbe enhanced at the expense of First. But may be I am the minority on this subject.

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Most of the Airlines has rules to escort F passengers to seat including BA. I have seen this in SQ, BA, QF, AI and JAL. However some regular travellers knows every corner inside a F cabin of his FF airline and struds towards their seat like home bathroom! Poor crew does not get a chance - also they know this type from the aerobridge itself. In other times, the situation is as bacrew1 described.

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wow - up comes this take me T M T Y S syndrome (thats take me to your seat syndrome). ........ i cant believe that people think this is soooooooooo important.

For those that dont know the way - down the arbridge, turn left and when you hit a small pointy bit at the front or enter a strange room with loads of buttons, youve gone too far.

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Hi - do you recall what flight number you were on CHI/LON as I believe the new aircraft is dedicated to the ORD route. BA have 2 daily flights and I am about to travel to LHR and would like to try the new aircraft. Many thanks Gregory

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BA's new F class is so far only available on one 777 and one 747.

It is not dedicated on any particular route or flight number, and so it is unlikely you will experience this cabin on your upcoming ORD flight. There is no way to predict which route will have this cabin, as even if you knew one of these aircraft was rostered on the route you planned to fly, operational issues can switch the aircraft used at the very last minute.

Once the seat has been fully certified by the CAA, it will be rolled out more widely and incidence of this cabin will increase.

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Thanks mate

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I spoke to You First today (0800 4087667). They can tell you on which routes and flight numbers it is rostered on up to May 5th. But as mentioned above, this can change at the last minute but they said it is pretty reliable. They have the schedule about 1-2 weeks in advance at any given time.

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I travel May 11 so will call that number next week just in case. Really appreciate it.

Cheers

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Thanks for the insight (bacrew1 - 26/04/2010 16:54 GMT).

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I spoke to You First regarding New F on a flight I recently took and they were spot on with telling me I would be in the new cabin - infact the lady read out the whole schedule to me over the phone! Seems to be fairly accurate if my own experience is anything to go by.

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First post so be gentle with me.... i have flown numerous time Club World in both old & new styles but on long flights such as LHR to SYD the extra comfort in First beats Club everytime. Having a mattress and proper pillow (and PJ's for those who wish - I PJ'd by the way) is better than "just a flat extended seat". This new offering that BA is selling is not presented as New First with an Old First option in a way that Club was previously portrayed, it is never the less a welcome addition to the fleet. Some may poo poo the offering as late, yes some say it's not up there with carrier X, Y or whoever but it's still offers an improvement on the dated old First option. Many of the upgrades that Singapore/Emirates/Qantas are offering are on the A380, what are BA's plans regarding their expected offering on F & J cabins in 2012 on their own A380 birds?

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To HBH. Sorry for late reply. 'bacrew1' provided a good reply. Just to add to that, when BA decided to remove one crew member from each long-haul flight we knew there will be times when pax will notice, contrary to the company's view. During the inflight service we have adapted, however we do feel the pressure when preparing the premium cabins for boarding as we have not been given any extra time to cover for the reduced crew number. It is not as simple as doing 1/15th less work, it is really noticable for us. During boarding there are certain CAA regs we need to follow, such as there always being crew within the vicinity of each pair of doors, should there be the need to evacuate. Therefore on a 747 there will be at least 6 crew tied up with that, 3 crew in the premium galley areas, 3 crew providing pre-flight drinks, newspapers, hanging coats etc in Club World and 1 assisting in First. This leaves only 2 crew to board and if a First customer has just been escorted a moment earlier it leaves only one crewmember at the boarding door who can't leave the door unattended. In a nutshell, we lost a 'floater' who would normally assist with the premium cabins, there are no spare crew left to come up and assist who are not already there. If there is no escort, they will have escorted someone only a moment earlier. Most crew have been doing the job for many years and know the best way to board as efficiently as possible, to get everyone sat down and settled to try to ensure an on time departure. It does mean the escorting will suffer even though we do try to 'catch' each First customer as best we can. Hope this helps too. Cheers.

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so why cant one of the ground staff be trained up to provide added support during boarding?

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Because they would go on strike - change in working practices!!

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and I thought i had problems with my mother in law!!!!!!

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All departments are having to work as lean as possible, 'maximise efficiency' (love that term) ..and until the joy of profit returns there is no money for extra groundstaff to 'float' .... although as a future idea, to have a dedicated extra person to board and settle in First customers would be very useful, a more personal attentive service. In reality though, there is more chance of you marrying your mother in law Martyn and living happily ever after!! Cheers!

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the thought of that makes me want to open the door at 35000' and jump out (if i couldnt push her out first) !!!

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Honest Crw

Your company competitors in middle east meet at door and take to first class seat.

Your company competitors in middle east have better first class seat.

Your company competitors in middle east work hard and not striking

Why you think your company will make profits in future?

Your company slowly going out of business.

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People post so many contradictory postings. On one hand MartinSinclair declares he does not need to be escorted to his seat. Next he argues why ground staff could not do the job. FF does not need to be shown their seat, but everyone enjoys the little perks as in other establishment like hotel, restaurant and other service industries. But there are regulation and ground staff's jobs are different. The whole idea of reducing one person from cabin staff is an financial decision - many people will not like this - but company need to make profit.

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Inquisitive - my post was absolutely correct, i really dont care whether i am escorted to my seat or not - however, this blog is not the Martyn Sinclair blog, it is about what the general feeling is. My comment was that if the budgets mean that the crew are one person short for the boarding process, then why not train ground staff to provide that cover, Whilst the door is open they can always get off so in theory they are not cabin crew. It would be ideal to allow a trainee as part of their crew induction process to work among the crew at boarding process allowing the more senior crew to direct their attentions to providing customer service to all passengers when boarding.

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binabdulaziz. I dont know why Im bothering replying to your post. I am proud to work for my company, however I am the first to admit there is much room for improvement without the need for little digs. You must remember BA is a company that has been struggling to make profit and must trim down in many areas. Several MidEast carriers are in a much better financial situation than BA therefore can invest much more in their products. BA KNOW some other airlines have superior cabins, but you can't magic money from thin air. So, to answer your points on the obviously faultless middle east carriers:

BA does escort First customers, occasionally the escort is escorting another guest, reasons explained in previous post.

We all know BA's First cabin looks dated, we all see the Qatar Airways ads on TV. No one is denying there are better seats on the market. Now the money has been 'found', New First has been launched and seems to be popular.

Staff in many MidEast countries can't strike even if they wanted to due to there being no unions, or no unions that operate as they do in European/American countries. Workers rights are not exactly high priority there, anyone who knows how those poor Bangladeshi road builders in Dubai are treated will agree, plus I can say without hesitation, BA crew would not have taken such action if it wasn't a last resort. I will not go into more detail, only that the media do not have all the facts and the public are woefully ill informed of the exact details of the dispute.

Profit. I can only try my hardest to ensure the customer flies with us again with the service I provide personally using the tools I am given. If some of my tools are removed I must adapt and hope the customer does not notice, we've been doing this for years.

Going out of business. Well, with the losses made recently, on paper it would seem so, however management are confident of a turnaround. If the American carriers were not bailed out (rightly or wrongly) a few years ago by their government BA could have swept up and could possible be the most powerful airline in the world right now. But, we cant hold on to the possibilities of the past and I really hope once this reshaping has finished the airline can move forward. It will take time of course. There are many airlines in a lot worse shape, providing a far worse service. There are many airline in much better shape. Thats the way it is in all industries.

Assalamu alaikum.

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HonestCrew, if "the media do not have all the facts and the public are woefully ill informed of the exact details of the dispute", why don't you enlighten us. This is not the right forum for it, but we could move the discussion somewhere else.

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Honest Crew

Wa alaikum assalam wa rahmatu Allah

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Well said HonestCrew.

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Binabdulaziz

Dont tell me Allah has bought shares in BA or now runs the company - thats all we need!

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I think He tried to, not certain He passed the Money Laundering checks.....

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from reading the other blogs I am not too sure whether Mr Binabduluzaziz would know what they mean either - Amen!

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as in his Money Laundering skills weren't up to scratch.....

(FCTraveller, I will answer when back from deepest darkest Africa. I wont go on and on about the issue, but I'll try to briefly show both sides clearly and fairly & let you decide.)

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Cool. I'm always will to listen to the other side of the story.

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i am not sure what skills are up to scratch if he includes Allah in this blog - jsut trying to check which context, shareholder, board director, union rep. Thats the problem when people write in an alien language - not all bloggers understand and can missinterpret - lets stick to English ay....................

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For those who no understand, Honest Crew write polite arabic greeting to me and I reply with better polite response as Holy Quran say should do.

I may no agree with Honest Crew posts, but polite and respectful greeting needs respectful reply, my ee colleagues say 'play ball, not play man.'

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Best to speak in English Binabdulaziz, best in English - that way you will not be missunderstood.

Lyela tov and remember to read the shema before you go to bed!

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Mr Sinclair

Honest crew greeted me in Arabic, I replied in same as that is polite thing in my culture.

If he say 'peace be on you', I would say 'upon you be peace and may you enjoy mercy of God'

With very great respect to you, I no speak Hebrew, but I wish you peace also.

You read your holy book, I read mine, we all happy.

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For those still interested in what the First Class is like (or just who want to see some of the best "real" photos I've seen of the product), may I point you at the excellent blog at:

http://boardingarea.com/blogs/flyingwithfish/2010/06/04/british-airways-new-first-class-%E2%80%A6-a-whole-new-experience/

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Vintage Krug/Martyn Sinclair,

We all know that binabdulaziz does not speak English as his first language and is neither Christian or Jewish. However neither of these points dey him the privilege to make a point (even if the audience does not always agree with him).

Stop brining Allah into KYC requirements. There's enough muslim bashing in the world, lets not bring that or anti semitism or anti christian feelings here.

Guys, grow up.

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Ha ha CrazyCanuck

I would dissagree with everything you say. I imagine from his English that Binabulaziz is being quite creative in his use of English, espcially in the words he uses in other threads.

And Yes Allah should be bought in KYC - for reasons we all know.

Have a great day and please remember this should remain a politicially neutral site

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Hi Martyn,

You can have a merry debate with binabdulaziz for as long as you want.

But please enlighten me as to what you mean by "And Yes Allah should be bought in KYC - for reasons we all know." I am confused and im sure some other people might be too.

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thats easy CrazyCanuck - becasue all this crazy security and fear we all have at airports has been casued by the extremists who bring down aeroplanes and "in the name of Allah" - I believe flight recorders have shown those to be the last words of the 9/11 perps and witnesses heard those words from the 7/7 bombers. Therefore if this is what Allah casues, then we all have the right to understand who he is as why this is casuing the travelling public one mighty mess at airoports since.

Before you get on your high horse and play the racist card, I have mentioned no race, people, colour or creed. Merely a word that is synonymous with the Terrorism "in the name of Allah".

Its a pity becasue when I was growing up, that word meant G-d, a very holy word that i would respect becasue at the end of the day all those neutral prayer houses in airports - all pray to the same G-d.

I hope that this answers your question and confusion in a very neutral way.

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Good morning all.

I'm booked in FIRST on the Bahrain flight next week (747 service) - does anyone know if it will be fitted with the new product?

Many thanks.

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If you really want to know, call YouFirst.

There is one 747 and one 777 currently fitted out, so it's still pretty unlikely.

I would suggest that it would be better to simply expect the old seat and be pleasantly surprised if it's the new one. Apart from needing to take your Empower adapter, I cannot see what is to be gained by knowing in advance, except for possible disappointment if it's the old cabin.

And of course even if they tell you it is routed on that sector, the aircraft used could change last minute for operational reasons.

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Thanks VK - yes, I was pretty sure that the chances would be slim, particularly on a route such as BAH.

As you say, there's no real value in knowing either way whether the new product is fitted other than (as this forum's hundreds of posts on the subject can attest to) it is a real curiosity factor!

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MartynSinclair: we all know what you mean and you should stop this. This is a forum about travel and not about abusing Muslims. Shame on you. Moreover, only a small group carry out these crazy acts in the name of God and Muslims are not responsible for all acts of terrorism currently and throughout history (remember Tamil Tigers, Northern Ireland, guerrilla groups in South America, terrorism leading to the creation of the State of Israel and current Israel's state terrorism, American and British invasion of Irak, etc, etc.). May we stick to travel issues here please?

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HBHThe comment was not against Muslims - read my post, it was not against any race - it was obvioulsy your guilty feelings and thoughts. If you know what I mean - you didnt disagree which is interesting.

I happen to dissagree with your intereprertation of Israeli "state terrorism". At least Israeli's dont strap bombs to themselves and then pull the trigger and shout G-d is great, killng inoccent people.

The shame is HBH that people use terrorism to stop innocent people from travelling. 95% of terrorists seem to want to should "G-D is great" and this is said in an Arabic language. I stand by what i suggested - Allah needs to be KYC'd to see exactly who he is becasue to 95% of world G-d is looked upon in a totally different light, esepcially where murder is concered.

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Fair enough. Yet only muslims use the term 'Allah' to refer to God. As for Israel, maybe they do not strap bombs to themselves, but the indiscriminate bombardment of civilian areas in Gaza and the killing of thousands of innocent people over the years is deplorable. Different ways of killing people and carrying out acts of terrorism? Of course deplorable what the other side does as well.

Let's put things into perspective, we have had very tight security and uncomfortable passage through airports for a very long time which had nothing to do with the current trend of some crazy people to kill large groups of people in the name of religion.

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Gentlemen,

this is a forum about business travel not the conflict in the Middle East, Iraq, Afghanistan or anywhere else for that matter so can you please take this discusion to other forums where it will be welcome.

HBHLondon, I would take issue with a lot of what you said in your last post but I cannot as I need to practice what I preach and not use this forum for political debate.

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VintageKrug we now have 3 777's with the new First Class. Registrations are : G-VIIU, G-VIIV, G-VIIW (the 747 is G-CIVF)

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Hi Jonno - trust all is well with you. You are right about these forums not being for political or religious purpose, hence why I was not including any religion.

The plain fact is that the security at airports is down to one thing and one thing only - people shouting out "Allah is great" and then killing themselves along with many other people. People who object to this statement are generally those that support it, becuase its only natural to defend what you support.

So who is this man Allah - he cant be a G-d becasue G-d's dont show wrath to incoenent children. This discussion was started by someone wondering why BA cancelled flying out of Saudi. Well just perhaps the cause was that BA take issue about this guy called Allah - hence KYC him. If Allah truly is the great man upstairs, like moshiach, he would bring peace and harmony to the world and not HOMOCIDE BOMBERS (never understood why they were called "suicide bombers"). Your absolutely right Jonno, this is not the place for political statements but my statement is directly realted to airport security and the casue in 2010 for a heightened level of security, which is one reason why BA and others have changed routes. Nothing in this post mentions a religion or people - its merely a neutral statement with questions about this great man called Allah and why his name seems to be synonymous with the casue of heightened airport security.

When was the last time someone went "for the love of Jesus" - BANG!!! This was not out to offend, but merely state facts about why airlines change routes and why we have such a high level of airport security worldwide!

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Thanks for the update bacrew1.

So that's 4 aircraft out of about 65 active longhaul fleet which are fitted with First (the others would be 3 class, without an F cabin).

About 5%-10% probability of you getting the new cabin then.

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I am sure that most people posting on here are professionals in life. If you travel for leisure or business then I hope we all act with a sense of decorum and class as befits people that live in the 21st century. There are a lot of bad things out there but some very good things as well. This website, in general, is good. It is let down by postings that lack class and appropriateness. This link is about the BA new FIRST. I am intrigued to hear about other peoples experience in that cabin. How has the service been affected by the strike and the reduced catering service on some flights?

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Roger Victor - you live in an ideal world that i wish were true. Just becasue people have minds does not make them any less professional. We live in a multi cultural society and whilst you may not have had much exposure to both busienss and leisure travel being disrupted ON A PERSONAL basis (i know you are ATC), I have had personal experiences of hearing people shouting Allah is great and then BANG!. SO when a travel sight like this starts to to receive blogs from people who belittle terrorism and state that the "holy" Qoran" is a peacful book, yet the facts show that the majority of the world's terrorists justify their actions on their interpretation of that book, it scares the living daylights out of me that this sight allows such posts. My comments are neutral but 100% factual.

I would be quite happy for the editors of BT to make a blanket ban on all political and religious statements.

Please Roger Victor, dont be as naive to think that posts you personally deem as being a "lack of class" should be swept aside. All anti sematic comments and references to terrorism and nazism which are blatantly untrue are sent to a central register and stored. With a little help identities can be established and appropriate action (of the legal type) can eventually be taken.

I would support 100% a total ban on all political discussions and discussions about terrosrism. Until then, unfortuantely it is a free for all and to me that is a danger.

I would never consider your role as an ATC officer any less professional if you were to be "policitally unsuitable" in a post. What concerns me though are psedonyms beleiivng that they have G-d given right to introduce progranganda which is simply not true. My comments about Allah being KYC stands - who is Allah and why do the majority of pax fear everytime somebody shouts Allah is great, waiting for a bang.

So please Roger Victor, whils this site remains a "speakers conrner" or "chatham house rules", please contribute in a positive way to this problem and do not consider it as a matter of decorum.

To prove the point, thnk you to your collegues who fast tracked a G550 into the London arrivals system recently with a medical emergency on board. We were taken out of the hold out of sequence and some how vectored for an immediate landing. Your professionalism showed through and i heard afterwards that whoever was in charge of the inbound approach routing, bypassed the STAR and got us on the ground within 15 minutes of request.

You wanted to know how services have been affected by the stike - the planes are flying, pax are moving, people are getting from A - B and please G-d that safety will not be an issue.

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I post on here as a business and occasional First class traveller. All paid from my own money. I add the occasional piece of knowledge that my job allows.

Back to the thread - How is the FIRST cabin being received by you guys in these trying times? The hard product becomes so much more important when the soft product is compromised. Has it been? Has anyone flown new FIRST pre and during the strike and noticed a difference?

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MartynSinclair;

Why don't you shut up and go elsewhere?

Editor;

It is very annoying to receive news notifications for ranting off like this. Could you please notify this guy that he is way out of line and perhaps ban him for a while if he does not adhere to the rules?

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Road King

I too find annonymous postings extremly rude.

Editor - why not insist that people become accountable for the rubbish they publish.

I am happy to avoid all political and religious references as long as it is agreed BY ALL and enforced. Unfortuantely Road King, there are no rules, which is the root cause of the problem. If people use certain offensive words incorrectly, what do you expect should happen.

The is a public forum Road King and I would support 100% a "BT code of posting".

Its a great day, the sun is shining - its fabulous out there - enjoy

Martyn

Martyn

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MartynSinclair – I really would prefer that you keep your self opinionated one-dimensional bigoted views to yourself - I personally find them offensive - get your facts right on which sect of fanatics have committed more acts of terrorism to fellow human beings, what is your perception of the IRA, Klu Klux Klan, Adolf Hitler - unless you found their actions acceptable as they saw what they did as acts of g-d.

Now in keeping with the thread: During the strike period have flown First to and from NYC - old cabin - service was barely up to club standard - also Club to LAX - not very pleasant and Club to Las Vegas -again not up to the usual standard.

VK/BA Crew - thanks for the update on the rollout of the new First product - has anyone seen a published rollout schedule?

It's a shame that during the strike period it may have been prudent to take a couple more of the Long haul fleet to have them installed with the new product. Use the opportunity to accelerate the rollout.

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Could the people here focus on the original topic of that discussion ? I really appreciate to read, and sometimes contribute to, the discussions on this site. When it is time to discuss about politics, I go to other websites and occasionally to political parties meetings. So please find another place for your crappy narrow-minded discussions. Please editor do something, and occasionally ban users who do not respect this forum's rules.

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...Thanks for that JP...erm any comments about your First class experiences, I would be interested in hearing your thoughts.

Anyone flying First LON-JFK-LON – a few helpful hints.

The cabanas in the Concorde Room at T5 are great - you can even have a meal delivered to you.

The Champagne is of a good quality - not vintage but still good.

The buffalo cheese starters - excellent.

The Shepherd’s pie - average.

The mini-burgers - same as the First lounge - average.

The Salmon - excellent.

The Custard desert - excellent.

Remember to have a wee sit down in the Concorde seats and reminisce- although badly maintained which is a shame.

In the Concorde Room at JFK.

The steak is great.

The Champagne is poor.

The restaurant resembles a school dining room - but not overcrowded.

No cabanas - shame.

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Champers is most certainly vintage in both the T5 First lounge and the Concorde Room.

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VK great to have some dialogue pertaining to this thread

...Well they've taken the vintage Bollinger out and replaced it with a premium Lanson which is good but not really a vintage champagne like the Louise or Bolly or Krug (now that's going back a while). Personally a standard Veuve Clicquot is as good as the Premuim Lanson - still better then most competitors First class lounges -

QF First Class lounge in Sydney - excellent lounge - excellent SPA - Excellent food - choice of three champagnes - none of them Vintage - best one there - standard Veuve Clicquot.

CX Wing in HKG - standard Moet - great restaurant - the cabanas could do with a re-furb.

CX Pier in HKG as above but the personal quiet rooms are in good shape.

BA First class lounge in LAX - poor food and Champagne selection - but nice to have some Guiness there. The AA/Qantas First lounge - better food selection there - no Champagne

BA First class lounge in Toronto - Moet and a reasonable menu.

BA First class lounge Chicage - poor menu.

BA First class Lounge Phoenix - Moet and poor menu

BA CR in JFK they have a Piper Heidsick...since the demise of Concorde they've stopped the provision of a Vintage brew there - shame.

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Just arrived home and here ia an update on ekond.

QF First Class Lounge Sydney and Melboure; Veuve Cliquot, Tattinger and Devaux Rose - top dining.

QF/BA/CX First Class Lounge LAX; Moet NV - very poor lounge crowded and food very average.

BA First Class Lounge Johannesburg; no Champagne, poor food. BA Lounge Lagos - lounge still closed as BA didn't get an import permit to bring in their own furniture, furniture is a banned import into Nigeria! hope it opens soon as it was the only decent lounge at MMI.

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It is Vintage in the Fist Lounge - Lanson Noble Cuvee 1999.

Vintage is not about the brand - it's about the vintage year.

Some rather exciting new champagnes soon to be used, apparently.

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I agree....but the I was informed the Lanson was selected purely on cost about 25% less then the bolly which is costs less than a Dom or a Krug.

It maybe penned a Vintage but lags behind in terms of qualirty with it's counterparts.

Thanks for the update that it's being replaced look forward to that - hopefully it won't be sourced from ALDI etc....

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There seems to be some misunderstanding persisting here.

The Lanson is actually rather more expensive in the wholesale market than the Bollinger La Grande Annee 2000 which preceeded it.

A wine is either Vintage or Non Vintage (NV). In the latter case, grapes from differing harvests (that is, years) are used.

Vintage wines make use of grapes harvested in a single year, and are therefore described as being a vintage of that year.

It is not possible to 'pen' a wine as vintage if it's not.

There is no direct correlation, per se, between a wine being vintage and it therefore being of good 'quality' (leaving aside for a moment the subjectivity of taste).

However, in practice, NV wines are usually of mixed provenance to allow poorer years' grapes to be blended with finer ones, thereby improving their quality.

If a year's grapes are poorer, they'll definitely go into NVs. If they are good, then they'll generally be kept together to produce a vintage and only some will be allowed to go to help the NVs out.

By default then, Vintage wines are almost always of higher quality than Non-Vintage, though your taste buds are, of course, your own.

Legend has it that some, cheap, NV champagnes are kept in some airline First Class lounges for emergency use only. And, when I say emergency use, I mean for use when a passenger clearly doesn't know any better......

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CC a very informed view - I only reiterated what the staff in the CR lounge told me.

I agree about the Bolly 2000 but for a long while they had 1999 - the 1996 was definitely better - in terms of price vs quality. The 2000 only had a relatively short stay.

As did .the Tattinger vintage which was deployed in First for a while but doesn't travel well on night flights - it appears these products are tested on Day flights. - it all makes a difference.

In the CR lounge they display their champagnes - and in the First lounge one helps themselves.

CC do you find the CR lounge a tad formal at times?

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Formal? I can't say that I do. It's certainly no Virgin Clubhouse, but there again neither the Concorde Club Room nor any part of the BA First product is designed to be analagous.

CC's review of the CCR is broadly-speaking as follows:

Reception: variable. Sometimes hugely friendly, sometimes rather more perfunctory.

Washrooms: dreadful. Like something you'd find in a RoadChef.

Cabanas: delightful. A real haven.

Terrace: doors a bit of a heave, often too warm, weak wi-fi, staff presence patchy; beautifully furnished, very comfortable, great lamps.

Lounge: fabulous projection above the fireplace, friendly service, very comfy sofas, nice and quiet, reasonable menu availability.

Dining Room: exceptionally discrete, comfortable, quiet; somewhat disappointing food (options and frequency of menu rotation), service way below the concept's aspirations. Overall, Plane Food knocks it for six in terms of food and service.

Bar: looks great, superb selection of drinks; service several notches below that you'd get in a real premium bar (similar comparison to PF vs Dining Room).

Overall, I like it immensely, and I've seen folks from Bill Nighy to David Beckham looking equally comfortable and unhassled in it.

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Mr Sinclair

I agree with much you say, maybe you surprised?

Man who kills in name of religion is very bad.

Sadly, long history of this over 1,000s of years.

"I imagine from his English that Binabulaziz is being quite creative in his use of English, espcially in the words he uses in other threads."

Sometimes I ask expats for coaching help, so not always my words, but I get better :-)

Now back to service - sadly my last BA flight cancel and I take bmi - very good service, but seat is not so good as BA, although still okay.

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As fortune would have it, my flight to BAH yesterday was indeed fitted with the new First product. One of only a couple of 747's that I understand that have completed the retrofit.

Overall, a very enjoyable experience.

The primary improvement in my opinion is the (very) big video screen. Makes one feel like they are almost at the movies (almost). The bistro style hanging light at each seat too, coupled with the 2-window-framed windows give the passenger's seat a feeling of space and luxury. When it gets dark outside, the mood lighting (blue in colour)starts to operate from the ceiling of the cabin.

The soft product (food, wine, service) was exceptional as always. For those that are interested (I note a certain degree of wine interest in earlier posts), I had small glasses of (in this order):

1. Lanson Noble Cuve Brutt 1999 2. Ropiteau Freres Meursault 2006 3. Chateau Lagrange 2001 (a 3eme Grand Cru from Saint-Julen/Bordeaux 4. Chateau Petit Vedrines 2006 (a Sauternes from Bordeaux)

The only drawbacks, if I seek to be critical are:

1. Some of the rear-facing companion seats (the seat a companion could use to join you for a meal or chat, for example) were very narrow. I don't think one could actually use the companion seat to any degree where I sat (3A) although 4B (the seat in the middle) looked to have ample space for an ample sized backside. Could also prove to be a fairly claustrophobic space for your feet, if sleeping (as this was a day flight I didn't make out the bed).

2. The magazine hold (it actually reads "for magazines" or similar) is too narrow to put magazines in. I folded up my copy of the Economist to make it fit.

3. The personal closet for a suit jacket is very shallow and not very wide. I had to pay close attention so that I didn't pinch the shoulders of my own suit jacket.

In summary, I found the product to be a great evolution to an already great product.

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From recent posts there are clearly other flyers who enjoy good champagne as much as I do. I find all the BA champagnes served recently to be very dull. The last good thing in my mind was the Pommery Cuvee Louise on offer some years ago. If you really want a treat fly First on JAL - they have a 1997 Salon on some flights. Beats anything anyone else has.

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Well, I think that's a little harsh.

BA served Cuvee Louise as recently as two years ago, at that time the alternative was Perrier-Jouet Belle Epoque, also pretty good.

The Bollinger Grand Cuvee 99 was a stunner, and only ran out about six months ago.

The Lanson Grand Cuvee is solid but, as you say, unexciting.

I know for certain that the champers offered in BA F and the lounges will improve markedly within the next six months, so stand by!

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http://boardingarea.com/blogs/flyingwithfish/2010/06/04/british-airways-new-first-class-%e2%80%a6-a-whole-new-experience/

For those of you who haven't seen it here is an excellent review. The pictures are better than the marketing pictures from BA.

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Back to the subject of BA First...

I have just booked a First seat for LHR - HKG in early August and am wondering how I can find out if I'll be travelling in 1950s Jaguar style First or 2010 Aston Martin style First?

Any pointers?

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You can see some info at previous posts in this topic,

Dade451 - 27/04/2010 16:11 GMT

VintageKrug - 07/06/2010 07:58 GMT

Potakas

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The new First appears to ignore the food issue: on a Beijing-LHR flight last week we were only 6 paxs in the cabin but I could not get my first choice of starter nor my first or second choice of main course. Incredible, one spends an enourmous amount of money to fly First, gets a beautiful menu and then cannot get what one wants. BA will have to do better than this. To give credit to BA though, the food on LHR-PEK was exceptionally good and the FAs on both legs were superb. My issue of not being escorted to my seat: it did not happen on either flight.

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Another fab photo on Airliners.net of BA First - http://www.airliners.net/photo/British-Airways/Boeing-777-236/ER/1791381/L/

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Is the new F dedicated to LHR / TLV ?

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It is certainly available on the new B777, which I travelled LHR-DXB on Saturday, albeit in Club World. However on alighting was via First and from what I saw was quite impressed, much better in the flesh than the mock up.

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Interesting comment by N Tarrant.

I didn't think the mock up looked that great, so maybe BA are hiding their light under a bushel?

By comparison, I deplaned through the old First today (also from CW) and thought it was sad it looked so tired, as I remember it being a world leading product for a number of years.

Let's hope the new one can earn the same accolade.

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An interesting piece in todays London Evening Standard.

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard/article-23888224-downturn-demand-for-our-new-pound-4500-first-class-seats-is-flying-high-says-ba.do

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BA 139 LHR-BOM on Dec 12th in new first - sorry folks, I am NOT impressed. The seat is no better than the standard first suite - thats just the fact. The window blinds are good - but not awesome by any means. Seat area was cluttered (crumbs etc - not cleaned). One seat in first was already not working (2K). Seat comfort was good, but no more private or comfortable than the older version. Catering was a LOW point. Awful food. Dessert not offered. Chocolates not offered - do we have to ask?? No bling is one thing, stand offish is another. Crew did not make up the bed - i started to make my own and they just passed me by and did not offer to make it or pick up the duvet after I was done. This would NOT happen on Cathay, Emirates or Singapore. Crew attitude needs to be fixed and perhaps catering and service protocols from EK, SQ and CX shared with the ageing crew - get with the program - its a competitive world out there and better choices abound.

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Plane cleanliness... reflects BA's attitude to its passengers. In terms of crew, employees tend to be inspired by their management. Says a lot.

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Disappointing to read of your experience; sadly I have had the same experiences. I sat down on my way back from YYZ and a dessert spoon was stuck down the F seat - not a comfortable start to my trip.....!

I have not yet flown on NF and look forward to doing so next year, if it is available on my flights. Poor food and inadequate service should not occur.

Please write to BA and inform them of your experiences and disappointment.

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DeepakThakkar: Spot on with your report! I always travelon CX and SQ for their supreme FC services - "service from the heart"

Don't expect this from BA or most of the European airlines!!!

International frequent travellers are extremly savvy these days and they seek out the best products and services for their money with no national boundries.

This old concept with "Fly the Flag" is no longer relevant and even my British partner is not keen on BA any more. I know many on this forum still do!

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DeepakThakkar, sorry to learn this, but did you ask?, yes it should be offered, but no problem to request.

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my flight last week to miami was in new 1st. definitely an improvement but still lacking in comparison to 1st in qantas A380 which is much better product. for one privacy remains non existent even in 1A (esp with the ridiculous storage unit still in the front) . also no space to store small things u may need during the flight and washrooms still dirty and old. crucially if i was flying to OZ would i fly new BA 1st or Qantas A380 - definitely Qantas.

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Henryp1:

It is very awkward and undignified to "beg for food" to say the least.

"May I have the desert and the truffles please" After all it is FIRST CLASS cabin service!!!!!

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Bed making

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CSD never came around to check, thanks on departure, etc. No, I did not ask for my bed to be made up - again, its not about asking, it is about a First Class experience - it was just lacking, at least on this flight. AA is no flag bearer on service standards, but on my flight from Paris to Chicago today, the Purser was cheerful, she came around to thank us all on departure and wished Happy Holidays. I drifted off to sleep while reading and the attendant placed a duvet on me - now this is not by any means a standard experience with AA, but when standards drop this dramatically on BA, it is noticeable.

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Henry: You question was not clear and I read about no dessert and chocolate was on offer hence the misunderstand. For for that.

DeepakThakkar: I totally agreed to your comment about expecting a FC experience when travelling in that cabin. The senior CC from the best airlines all understand this concept of offering their FC passengers attentive services without being obstrusive!

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That is right Deepak, when BA made cuts to crew numbers, the CC manager now works in the service in Club World. During a recent conversation, according to their role, I found it is no longer a duty of theirs to welcome and personalise the flights experience for Premium passengers. An example of how BA is cheapening their product.

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Alasdair: If what you have said is the case, BA is not only cheapening their product, it is in fact devaluing their product as well! Not a smart business move as investing a vast amount in hardware in F without the accompaning "fineness" that is expected by top tier flyers will steer these passengers away to rival airlines, especially on the Asian routes.

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Hi all, I have only flown BA 1st twice in the last few months, unfortunately both on the old product: one was a flight to Barbados. The cabin felt old and tired, but to make matters worse the crew were behaving like they were doing us all a favour by serving us, disappeared soon after lunch and we nowhere to be seen until afternoon tea, served with the wrong attitude yet again. I was quite pleased to have arrived at our destination so as not to be treated with a mix of arrogance and sarcasm. A few weeks ago I flew BA 1st to SYD, the cabin was still tired, but both crews were very good and made us feel at home. It was the kind of experience you expect from 1st Class. On our return from SYD we flew Qantas, and they were magnificent, even when we ended up on an old 747 instead of the expected A380 - a bit of a disappointment, but the crews more than compensated for this. I am still looking forward to experiencing the new BA cabin, but I guess my point is that if the service is poor the whole experience is spoilt anyway. Seasons' greetings to you all !

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FlyingDoc: This is exactly what I was driven at in my previous postings. A true First Class service MUST be consistent. Like top grade restaurants. While BA FC service can be exceptional some of the times but is more a question of luck as often you would find yourself travelling with FA with a BIG attutide. A "BA Roulette".

If you want to have top flight services and for your route then you should stick to SQ and CX as they never disappoint. There are also other good ones around. I am not pro any airlines but just knowing what is the best in the sky!

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Hi FlyingChinaman & Flyingdoc.

You are 100% correct: given the price BA charge for First class, the service should be be consistently excellent. There can be no excuses at that level.

I often wondered if BA customer service read these adverse reviews and contact the disgruntled customer to address their concerns. Has this happened to anybody?

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I did 4 sectors almost back to back on the same aircraft earlier in the year with 4 different crews - the service varied a huge amount from outstanding one on sector to mediocre on two of them and good on the 4th. The plane itself wasn't great as the IFE was broken (not that I minded because I just needed to sleep) but what I experienced was a lack of communication between crews, so each new tried to do the safety demo and failed and then had to resort to a manual demo, each made an announcement to say the IFE was starting, only to make an announcement 15 mins later to say it was broken etc the service and experience should be uniform and outstanding buts it's not. Thankfully more often than nit, I personally find it very good.

And in answer to your question, Ive never been contacted by BA customer service about postings here - unless BT gave therm our contact details they would have no way of doing this

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Hi Loyal_BA.

Thanks for clarifying the contact issue.

On tripadvisor, I have often seen hotel management respond to individual customers, and provide their contact details should the customer choose to make contact.

Maybe if airline customer service did something similar it might restore confidence in their product.

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I sent my experience details to BA and got an email from them today offering me $100 towards my next flight! Are they kidding me? Incredible callousness and i shall certainly not be using that credit as i have no intention of giving them any further business. Appaling.

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PJordon

I think BA is aware of the flutuations in their FC service quality but probably unable to address the problem due to strong union resistance to changes. Another thing is BA gets most of it's premium passenger revenue on the Atlantic routes where competition from other US carriers is almost nil. Virgin has no FC. Also BA has superior lounges in T5, together with good frequencies and a rather large loyal and patriotic "FAN" base in the UK, it can afford to ignore the service inconsistency..

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Last First flight had iffy service, lousy food and the new seat leaves a great deal to be desired. BA has totally lost their way in terms of premium travel.

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I am flying BA first in september this year LHR-LAS, BA changed the plain into a 747, can anyone tell me if the new cabin will be installed?

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There are obviously no guarantees, but at the rate they are going with 747 refits, there is a good chance that it will

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Quite impresive to change a "plain" into a 747.

What next, the Grand Canyon into an A380, perhaps?

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As long as it doesn't rain on it.

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